Trumpeter 1:35 scale DRG Baureihe 86 display model.

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by P A D, 25 October 2019.

  1. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi, for those of you that don't know, Trumpeter are a Chinese company that manufactures plastic injection moulded model kits. Their product line consists of model ships, aircraft and military ground vehicles. In the last segment they have a number of railway vehicles associated with WW2, most notably, a rail mounted canon and armoured loco, a BR 52 Kiegslokomotive (2-10-0 war locomotive) and the subject of this thread, the BR86 2-8-2 tank loco, although strangely it is know as a tenderlokomotive in German. Although not strictly a war loco, the BR86 introduced in 1928, was adopted as a UK loco (Ubergangs-Kriegslokomotive) or universal loco in 1941 in support of the German war effort. 377 locos were introduced by the DRG between 1928 and 1939, with a further 398 built between 1941 and 1943 as UK locos.

    The Trumpeter kit introduced some years ago, is generally criticised for its omissions and inaccuracies, but fortunately there are a number of aftermarket companies supplying resin cast and photo etch kits to correct and upgrade it.

    Here we bave the loco kit, 3 photo etched sets from Eduard, 4 resin cast kits from LZ Models and resin cast hex bolts, resin cast rivets and brass rivets. 20191025_132119.jpg
    Here's what's in the box. Originally I was just going to build it out of the box with maybe one or two changes here and there, but having read a number of builds on various plastic model building forums, I decided to add as much detail as I could, hence the additional kits and parts. Up to date I've had a bit of a dabble with the chassis and boiler, but the D11 is taking priority.

    This is the Knorr compressor which will replace the rather spindly simplified parts in the kit. Although there is a fair amount of flash, it's very thin and easy to remove after which the parts are very impressive. I'll replace the plastic piston rod with brass.

    These are the backhead, dynamo and light fittings.

    Fittings for the boiler. When I get to the build I'll show comparisons of the kit and after market parts.

    This is the feed water pump and Tolkien compressor which I don't need as I'll use the larger Knorr one, but these come as a set. They also do a set of replacement wheels and clasp brakes to replace those in the kit. However, in my opinion, the wheels in the kit are fine and only about 40 locos had clasp brakes.

    Here is a link to the LZ website.

    1/35 detailed plastic and resin model kits and accessories | Home

    Last edited: 24 March 2020
  2. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Wow, spooky, was just looking at their SSyms and associated cargoes not 2 minutes ago.

    Looking forward to this and may drop for the Br52, though I think it has more defects that the Br86 from what I've read.

    Tenderlok is as you note, a tank engine for the rest of the world, in basic terms it means an engine that has it's own built in tender.

    Another useless fact, B686 have the nickname Bubikof, no idea why or where it came from, unlike Oschenlok for the Br41 which came about from their design to move heavy Ox (cattle) trains pre war, or so it has been said.
    BR Tony likes this.
  3. Dikitriki

    Dikitriki Flying Squad

    This will be interesting. Do you have a feel for how time-consuming it will be, given that you will be super-detailing it?
    Robin likes this.
  4. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Finished as DRG, DB, DR, ÖBB, CSD or PKP?

    I think you'll find Bubikopf is the nickname for the BR64 tenderlok. Bubikopf = bob after the 1920s ladies hairstyle of the period.
  5. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Mick,
    For a while I considered getting the BR 52, but size wise it's a monster so I went for the smaller option. Also there seems to be more aftermarket stuff for the 86 although originally that was not relevant to me. As to the nickname Bubikof, I believe that was for the smaller BR 64 2-6-2, but I wouldn't swear to it. A guy on a German forum built a very nice one from scratch from plywood, card and various other raw materials in 1:35 scale, and he referred to the build as "Project Bubikof". In my googling of information on the 86 I think I have seen the 64 referred to a Bubikof on other websites.

    By the way for your information in case you are not aware, the below website has stacks of manufacturers drawings on many German prototypes, which I believe you may be interested in. You can download low resolution ones for free from the website or buy high res versions at very reasonable prices. They are sent as TIF documents via a link which you can down load and save to your device. You can really zoom in on the screen and see the smallest details.


    Here's an example of two of the BR 86 low res drawings. I bought the high res versions for €12.00. Very simple to order via the website and pay with PayPal.


    The above pair come as a set and for a few more euros I also got the high res version of this as well.

    I had these printed off to 1:35 scale at my local copy shop for about 3 quid.

    Having said that I shied away from the bigger BR 52, LZ Models have been considering a BR 01 pacific for some time and if that ever comes to market I would be very tempted. They also mention introducing a BR 80 0-6-0 tank loco.

    No idea at this time as to how long it will take. I'll have a better idea once I get started, but I need to complete the D11, then rebuild the A3 and A4 when they come back from Warren and then strip down the BR Std 4 and Stanier tanks for painting.
  6. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Peter, you may be right (Bubikof), always though it referred to the 86.

    Zander-Heba, too expensive old boy, better to go for the CD sets from Harrysfiles, pretty much the same drawings, though maybe not all the ones that can be got from Zander. Contents vary from 20 to 40 drawings per engine and you'll often get missing ones that are quite important...for scratch building, like only two of the five drivers on a 50 etc.

    For the record I've got, 01, 01.10, 03, 23.10, 38.10, 41, 44, 50, 50.40 (DDR not Crosti), 52, 65.10, 78, 80, 86 sets of drawings as well as variants such as 50.35, 52.80 in books. All the EJ Sonderausgabe magazines on specific loco types, all the EK Verlag books on steam locos, nearly all the diesel (need to pick up V160 volumes II and II) and most of the electric ones; plus dozens of other specialised or generic detail books.

    If you have time you can also find a nearly full set of Russian drawings for the 50, both the plate frame and earlier cross over bar 'UK' frames, just over 400 drawings, all at large size and perfectly readable.

    Watch out on the 50 and 52, lots of variants and detail differences, some small, some really large. Your frame drawing is an early/mid range set of frames, later frames 'UK' changed in detail, the most obvious change is the move of the air tanks with a redesigned stepped bracket with the front tank being higher.

    Beware loco numbers as well as a detail reference, it doesn't always follow that higher numbers were built later. Numbers were allocated in batches to factories, thus 50 1000 could easily of been built later than 50 2800 for example, so, 50 1000 maybe a UK engine and 2800 not. Build date is a better guide to an engines specification, cabs are also another good guide, later engines with wannen (bath tub) tenders had the enclosed cab, though there is a cross over cab called the 'Norwegian' cab that was used with standard 2'2'T34 tenders. In addition cabs were hacked around post war, especially by the DB, many 'UK' cabs gained side windows and modified roof vents, some later standard cabs lost their side windows and were fitted with 'UK' roof vents.

    Kabin tenders are another variant, I have a list of all Kabin tenders allocated to locos, well I don't, someone on Drescheibe went through all the photos and made a list up and published a pdf.

    It's a bit easier if you're modelling the DDR post war as they tended to keep what they had or send them through the Reko program, thus 50.35, 50.50 and 52.80 are on the whole pretty much identical machines (within their classes), though boiler fittings do vary.

    Water heaters and feed pumps is also another massive mine field, less so on the DDR due to the Reko program.

    Cylinders are another variant, the 50, 50'UK' and 52 are all interchangeable and was carried out with abandon, I've a list somewhere of some (I seriously doubt it's exhaustive) of which cylinders of which type were fitted to which engines, certainly all of the 52.80 but may include other classes.

    Drescheibe has a good index of a lot of the 50/52 threads and information posts Drehscheibe Online Foren :: 04 - Historische Bahn :: HiFo-Beiträge von Micha Ziegler (fahr-Meister bzw Bw Roßlau) use google and hit the auto translate button.

    The Die Bundesbahnzeit has some very good pages on German trains, specifically the 50 class differences Die Bundesbahnzeit - Baureihe 50

    Nothing to do with the 86 of course, but I'm more interested in the 50/52 classes personally, still a couple more books to add to the collection and I've been collecting photos ofF a guy in Germany on Ebay. You also get a large screen digital copy if you've selected items from that catalogue.

    From DB.

    051 004-0.jpg

    An early engine but does not have the full suite of boiler fittings, domes etc of the originals, standard cab too, cut back footplates which pretty much afflicted all DB class 50 in the end.

    Later build.

    052 386-0.jpg

    Again standard cab but 'UK' boiler fittings, both still have original designed frames as denoted by the double lozenge openings above the pony truck and level air tanks.

    DDR class 52

    52 8155-5.jpg

    'UK' cab but interestingly with oval ended front screens which are only fitted to the Reko .80 engines, true 'UK' cabs have square front screens and sun shades and were retained on all engines not rebuilt. Boiler fittings are as 1004 above though no Rekos retained the original five dome set up or later two dome set up.

    52 8083-9.jpg

    Another Reko 52.80, basically pretty much the same but with 'UK' boiler fittings, one other detail difference on the 52 class is the pony spring, moved to above the footplate on the 52 (mounted below and inside the frames on the 50). 8083 has longer tie rods making the spring sit higher, there has been talk somewhere of the front frames being lower as well but I've not seen anything conclusive or any drawings to back that up.

    Now, where were we :eek:
    Last edited: 24 March 2020
  7. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Mick,
    Many thanks for the very informative post. It is clear you are way ahead of me on German locomotive research, which I expected would be the case. I see Yokshire Dave has posted something as to the origin of Bubikof which now rings a bell with me, but I don't recall where I read it.

    As to cost, that is of course relative and compared to what you pay for Isinglass and the like, they seemed like good value for two or three drawings. However, when I see the list that you have I understand how cost becomes more important especially if their is a more cost effective and extensive source. Can you send me the web address as a quick Google has not pulled up any thing.

    Yes, I understand the frame drawing is an early version as the side elevation of the loco, but good enough for my needs. I intend to build it as a post war DR version probably 86-001 as it is configured as I wish to build it - early pre heater, large Knorr compressor. I'll need to modify the rear of the cab handrail and the support bracket for the tank/slide bar, but that is quite simple.

  8. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Here are the Eduard etchings or photo etch as the plastic model fraternity refer to them. First the cab dials. There should be a couple more, so I'll have to sort something out fof those.

    Eduard do three idividual sets for the 86 and a pack with all three, which can be bought at a small saving. The parts are mainly overlays and some I may not use, in particular the open grill type footsteps mid way to the right of the fret.
    Exterior part 1.

    Internal part 1.

    Interior part 2.

    Exterior part 2.

    This one they refer to as the floor plates but it's just another exterior fret.

    And the second interior fret.

    There a lots of etched hex nuts which I have supplemented with resin cast ones.

    Last edited: 27 October 2019
  9. michl080

    michl080 Western Thunderer

    interesting reference. Never heard of "Harryfiles". Can you give more information.

    Every 50/52 is its on class. There are some 3000 classes in total :)

    Regarding the Bubikof, it is a Bubikopf in fact, where kopf means head. This describes a 1920s ladies haircut.,_Louise_Brooks.jpg
    Seen from the front, there is a similarity etween the haircut and the tanks.
    But in fact, only the class 64 is called Bubikopf.

    Isn't that funny that you are moving to German prototypes where I move to UK models.

    sorry, the formatting of this post is completly broken, I have no idea how this happened :-(

    Last edited by a moderator: 26 October 2019
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  10. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Sorry for my crap German spelling. I'm sure there will be more as the thread progresses. Let's face it, I can barely spell in Engkish!

    Who ever first likened the 64 to a hair style must have had a very vivid imagination. :D Then again where do crap names like Jinty and Gronk come from for UK prototypes?:confused:

    In my case, the 86 build is just a slight diversion for a while. I've always wanted a large scale model loco of some sort but can't justify something from the likes of Kiss just to sit on a plinth. The Trumpeter kit is a good compromise plus I get the enjoyment of building it.

    BR Tony, 3 LINK, Peter Cross and 2 others like this.
  11. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Yeah and I spelt it wrong too, but that's par for the course :))

    I did wonder if it should be kopf as I'm also a fan of the Eierkopf (egghead) EMU's.

    Harrys files are on Ebay Items for sale by harrysmodellshop2000 | eBay

    They're pretty much the same as you get from Zander, in fact Zander used to do full set CD's and I have a few of them, but he's since stopped them and now only seems to sell individual sheets at what looks like a gross mark up.

    Hettler also does drawings Hettler Eisenbahn-/Modellbahnzeichnungen but aimed more at the modeller, bit like Roche or Isinglass sort of thing.

    I'd also heard of an 01 being muted, that'd be a no brainer purchase I feel and it'd be straight into the cutting shop for a Neubaukessel refit.
    BR Tony, P A D and michl080 like this.
  12. farnetti

    farnetti Western Thunderer

    I have seen this as well and was tempted. Also Trumpeter do 1/200 kits of WW2 battleships but together with Scaledeck printed wooden decks and a choice of after market etched detailing offerings will eat up much of your bank balance and even more of your life. Have look on Youtube, some of the builds are stunning.

    P A D likes this.
  13. Richard Spoors

    Richard Spoors Western Thunderer

    If there are particular aspects of a prototype not covered by ‘Harry’ or ‘Zander’ try the DB museum in Nürnberg. They are very helpful and if they find what you are looking for will send you a tif file scan and a reasonable invoice.
    For the classes 01, 41, 44 and 50, the ELV reprinted books of drawings (Beschreibung) are very good.
    BR Tony, michl080, cmax and 2 others like this.
  14. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Not heard of them, do you have a publisher or author please?

    There's a couple of other books that are worth looking for, they come up regularly second hand on German Ebay.

    Die lokomotiven der BR44, Weisbrod/Brozeit from Alba publishing.
    Baureihe 01, Weisbrod/Petznick from Hermann Verker Verlag.

    The 01 is better with more detail photos and a smattering of drawings, the 44 is more lighter reading but compared with most books, still very detailed and more generic drawings rather than detailed ones. Don't be put off by the coffee table format and size, they're easily worth the price and you can pick them up for less than a tenner most of the time.

    EK Verlag are supposed to be doing the 10 and 01.10 but they've been touting them for years as soon to be published and I wish they'd do the Br23 (DB), drawings of those are really hard, if not impossible to obtain.
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  15. Richard Spoors

    Richard Spoors Western Thunderer

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  16. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Many thanks for for link to Harry's modelshop. I can see now why you consider Zander Heba an expensive source for German prototype drawings.

    As to a large scale 01, I think I would most certainly put my hand in my pocket for one, although I'd be happy with the boiler it came with. I get the impression on the LZ website that they are making some kits (or having them made) as injection mouldings rather than resin and I believe the proposed BR80 and one assumes the 01 will be plastic???

    Here are a few photos of my early dabblings with the kit when I was just going to build it "out of the box". Having then seen several upgraded builds on various forums, it was clear that would be a waste, so after much googling (albeit without finding Harrysmodels :rant:) various magazines, books, drawings and the aftermarket parts were sourced. Not cheap, but still a fraction of the cost of a RTR gauge one loco of any sort.

    It comes with a plastic plinth and length of rail to display the finished model. The plinth has moulded ballast and without lots of fettling it would be very difficult to get the rails in after the sleepers were fitted from underneath. In any case, plastic ballast has about as much appeal as plastic coal, so those parts went straight into the recycling. The rails and sleepers on the other hand look OK, of will do after painting and weathering, so I will use these and make the plinth from wood and ballast it up ( or ask my brother to do it as I don't do civil engineering). :(

    I suspect the rail chairs are a bit lacking compared to the real thing, but after it's ballasted I can live with it.

    Here's the fire box after the front lower corners were rounded as per the prototype. Not quite out of the box!

    On this side, some moulded on pipework has been removed, but at this stage the rear boilercladding band was still on the front end.

    The left hand side of the boiler after removing the moulded pipe that runs from the cab to the steam operated bell behind the chimney.

    T'other side. The cladding bands were taller than Everest so they had to come off.

    Scraping and rubbing down the bands took a while, but styrene is a much easier medium to work than white metal for example. The bands were replaced with strips cut from brass shim to the same width as the originals. After carefully rubbing down the boiler joint at the top (and bottom), I then re-scribed a line to represent the cladding joint and added a representation of the fixing screws from tiny brass rivets.

    After receiving the drawings, I noted that the sand domes were a little short, so a disc of plastic card was glued to the top of the base, then the edge rubbed down to match, and the top piece glued to plastic card disk. By now out of the box was out of the door.

    Thinking more about Dikitriki's earlier question in post #3, I would guess that it will take a lot less time to build this kit than for example, the MOK or David Andrew's 2-6-4s, as there is a lot less preparation of parts required and almost no cleaning up to do after joining the parts. I've got most of the extra /replacement parts that, after minimal preparation, will just need fitting, so scratch building of parts will be minimal. I'm using a product called Plastic Weld (Methylene Chloride) applied to the joint with a small brush. After the joint dries, a little rubbing down with a fine grade Emery paper is all that's required. The etched parts will be fixed to the plastic with super glue and where a brass to brass joint is required, then I will solder before fitting to the model.

    In terms of reference works, I sourced this excellent publication from a book seller in Greece, at a very good price compared to many others that I found. It doesn't give any history of the class, building dates, allocations etc., but contains dozens of high quality colour photos of three of the preserved locos including many shots inside the cab and as such is an excellent aid to building this kit. An equivalent version for the BR52 Kriegslokomotive is also available in the series, which is mainly dedicated to combat aircraft and armoured fighting vehicles. 20191026_111300.jpg

    Last edited: 27 October 2019
  17. Wagonman

    Wagonman Western Thunderer

    On the subject of dodgy spelling, shouldn't the Br41 be called 'Ochsenloks' ? :)
  18. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Wagonman,
    Yes it should, but we the gist. Let's face, it there's so many spelling mistakes on here due to big fingers typing on small touch type screens, coupled with predictive text, that as long it's understandable, nobody cares. I read through all my replies before posting, but I guarantee if I re-read immediately afterwards, I find two or three mistakes.

    michl080 likes this.
  19. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Indeed it should :thumbs:

    I was just musing with someone the other day, I almost get more replies to my posts that contain bad spelling than I do with modelling show and tell updates :eek: :p.
    oldravendale and P A D like this.
  20. Wagonman

    Wagonman Western Thunderer

    I'm sure you exaggerate wildly...
    mickoo likes this.