7mm US model dabblings

JasonD

Western Thunderer
Don't forget that the 'new' Kadees with internal (hidden) knuckle spring are available with the coupler head centred on the shank or offset above and below the shank if that helps:
Kadee - O-Scale Product listing
Apparently they are AAR Type-E ... no idea if that makes them too modern for your car.
Jason
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
AAR Type E is just right for the CP boxcar, they were the standard when the cars were built (Type E introduced around 1934). I am not convinced by the need for the offset shanks on the Kadees though. First they look like no prototype coupler as the vertical offset would result in all sorts of stress problems in a full size coupler. They are convenient in HO where it is harder to mount couplers prototypically but in O it shouldn't be that difficult to have the mounting height right.

If anyone is interested I have photographed the O scale AAR Type E couplers I have to hand to show the differences. From left, 1. San Juan earlier knuckle coupler (not Type E) which couples with the Type E with no problems, 2. San Juan Type E in delrin, 3. Protocraft Clouser cast brass Type E, 4. Protocraft pre-assembled cast brass Type E (replacement for No. 3), 5. Kadee 'scale' Type E (this one is modified so it will couple with the scale couplers) and 6. Kadee 'scale' Type E as supplied.
O couplers top.jpg
O couplers front.jpg

A closer view of the modification to the Kadee coupler. The outer surface of the operating jaw was filed to reduce the bulk so it will fit into the scale coupler. It fits but doesn't look too pretty when coupled to a scale coupler. It still seems to work with standard Kadees without any problem.
O couplers k.jpg

All the couplers numbered 1. to 4. couple with each other without any problem. Uncoupling is not automatic, the San Juan and Clouser need the pin to be lifted with a probe and the new Protocraft coupler has a magnet in the lift pin so a magnetic wand can be used to uncouple. A bit easier than three links but do need the hand of god. Coupling is usually automatic provided the jaws were left open.

To my view both the San Juan and the new Protocraft couplers look good and work. The Protocraft coupler is stronger as it is brass and the magnet is a good idea. The San Juan couplers are not currently in production, more recently San Juan have produced an automatic coupler similar to the Kadee but I don't have any of them. It may be worth noting that there was a fault in the tooling for the version of the San Juan Type E couplers with the Kadee style draft box for the last production run or two and they didn't work reliably. The version with scale draft gear didn't seem to suffer from the same problem. Hopefully the new owners of San Juan will reintroduce the Type E couplers, and the other useful scale parts.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Not having any stock of Kadee's and being 5700 miles from home, does anyone have dimensions of the pocket or base that the coupler fits into.

Specifically modern Type F, just trying to work out the artwork on the GEVO pilot and where to put the coupler fixing and height.

Image3.jpg

Cheers.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
Links on their O-scale page: Kadee - O-Scale Product listing
point at some more diagrams for example: Kadee - #800, #801, #804 O-Scale Coupler

Must admit I'd never heard of #819 Extended Metal Draft Gearbox and Lid. Must spend more time on the computer....

There was a comment on one of these Fora recently about too much slack in Kadee couplers. Now some people do like slack 'take-up', but many years ago, Norton Jensen suggested plastic cylinders, cut squarely from rod, inserted inside the spring to limit compression slack. Works a treat.
Jason
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Jason, cheers, that'll sort me out. Looks like the new E type are more chunky and represent modern ones until I can find some F type.
 
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Overseer

Western Thunderer
In a few odd hours I have lowered the brass boxcar by approximately 2mm by milling the centre of the body bolster and facing off the bogie (truck) pivots, primed with black etch primer, sprayed the body colour and applied most of the decals to one side so far. With a little help from Micro Sol the decals are sitting very nicely around the rivets and once the flat varnish goes on there should be no visible evidence of the carrier film.
cp1937a.jpg

Still waiting for the coupler pockets. The colour doesn't look the same in the photo as it does in reality, the camera doesn't like the warm white LED desk lamp. It will be weathered after the matt varnish.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
...
Still waiting for the coupler pockets. The colour doesn't look the same in the photo as it does in reality, the camera doesn't like the warm white LED desk lamp. It will be weathered after the matt varnish.

Is that San Juan coupler pockets you're waiting for?
Jason
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Having some spare time whilst away allowed me to focus and rationalise a few things, to be fair I bounced around a few new UK projects but few stuck more than a few hours in my interest range and still boyed by the US vacation decided enough was enough and just get on with it.

To be honest most of the weeks were spent bouncing around the SD40-2 and working up the cab core and all the variants I'd like.

Image5.jpg

But it just didn't seem to gel, it's workable, but I'm not getting that satisfied feeling you get when you step back, I'll let it stew for a while and then come back at some point. Instead I decided it was time to scratch that ever increasing nagging GEVO itch, it clearly was not going to go away.

The biggest issue was actually scale, O gauge is manageable but Gauge 1 would allow me to go into over drive with the details. In the end I opted for O gauge.....to begin with.....simply for cost, the GEVOs have some awkward angles and bends on the nose, getting those wrong in a test etch would be expensive in 1:32.

The next issue was which model, there are many variants, some subtle some highly visual, some pertain to only one railroad, others are common across several, in the end I've opted for the ES series, the first to be tagged GEVO by GE. If you're not a GE fan then you'll be forgiven for thinking they're all alike but the lineage goes all the way back to the Dash 7, each subsequent model building on the last.

Ideally I'd of preferred a Dash 9 for their sound track but what I have here can be back dated if required. The biggest issue with Dash 9 is variants, back then individual Railroads specified varying options, trying to unravel them and come up with a design that fits more than three or four would be difficult. The GEVO was the first attempt by GE to start rationalising the design and thus begin the path toward lean production, the latest Tier 4's are all but identical.

To be fair GE have such a large slice of the market they can now dictate what Railroads have, here's a Tier 4, you need it for government emissions, take it or leave it. The other advantage to a standard product is cost and more importantly, build time.

Amyway progress so far centres around the cab area and electrical cabinet area, there's not many variations in this area, so it's not too difficult to work up a standard core that will suit several minor variants if required. The idea is a solid 0.45mm core with overlays for cab sides, compartment covers and electrical cabinet access doors and vents.

Image4.jpg

The overlays will be on a separate 0.25mm sheet which I'll work up as this one is being processed by PPD, I won't send that off until I've built this test one first and made sure all the angles and build concept actually works. Ideally the cab screen overlay, dynamic brake/generator covers and a few other details should be on the 0.25 sheet; but I'm winging it and am interested to see how the details come out on the thicker 0.45mm sheet.

The next few days will be spent tabbing it up and block filing ready for sending to PPD, probably Monday after I get back from a little jolly to Beijing over the weekend :p

In short this core should suffice for ES44AC, ES44AH, ES44DC, ES44C4, ET44AC, ET44C4 and ET44AH, the last three (ET) being Tier 4 models.

The biggest changes in the Tier 4 is the lengthened frame and enlarged cooling assembly, the cab and electrical cabinets are pretty much the same as the ES series.

The etch covers the later MKII cab variants with nose door on the right, earlier models had the door on the left, both types of door are supplied, glazed and blank. I think there's some sort of crash worthiness mandate that specifies the nose doors shall not have glazing. Not quite sure how the provision of glazing or not, has any relevance to crash worthiness when one 12,000 ton train hits another. The reasoning behind the moving the nose door is more interesting however.

With a revised nose etch then the artwork will cover earlier variants and could then be back dated to cover Dash 9s as well.

Right hand nose door GEVO's have been supplied to BNSF, CN (standard screens only, tear drop are all LH nose doors), CP (frustratingly no ES series carries the golden beaver logo at this time, though it appears to be making a come back on recent shopped Dash 9 units), CREX, CSX, FEC, FXE, KCS, NS and finally UP.

Overall at a rough guess, that little lot gives you about 4000 units to pick from.

Just in case anyone has forgotten what a GEVO ES unit looks like ;), here's some motivational images I use.

BNSF, Cajon Pass.
BNSF 8285a.jpg

BNSF, Kingman Canyon
IMG_5139.jpg

UP, Cajon Pass
UP 7400b.jpg

UP, Cajon Pass
UP 7444c.jpg

Only another 270 days...ish until I go back :cool:
 
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Big Train James

Western Thunderer
I think the nose glazing issue is more about crashes with vehicles than with other trains. I've read that it has to do with preventing projectiles or other elements from penetrating the nose and entering the cab. For what any of that might be worth with the forces in question. I've no hard evidence to back that up though.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
James, I can kind of see that, though how it's supposed to then penetrate the internal bulkhead I'm not quite sure.

UP, to date, appear to be the only company to be removing the glazing and patching the opening on their fleet, maybe they are more progressive in adhering to the mandate. Or, maybe other companies are simply replacing the whole door with new ones from GE?

I'd also heard that leaving the front door open to force ventilate the cab is no longer permitted, mind in the words of one BNSF crew member I read somewhere, that was probably just as well, as all it seemed to do was fill the cab with the smell from the poorly fitted retention tanks.
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
I thought that the door flip to the engineers side was so that it wasn't directly opposite the stairs behind, which lead up into the cab. I can't remember if there is a door between the stair and the cab at the top. But it is conceivable that with a nose door with glazing, in line with the stair and whatever door may be at the top of the stair, that something could make it into the cab.

Regarding doors open for ventilation, I believe you are correct that it is now prohibited. Although most if not all newer units, I'm guessing sd60's and onward at least, come equipped with cab air conditioners now. In the old days, pretty much only SP (and subsidiaries) and ATSF equipped their locos with air. It could get pretty warm in one of those steel boxes.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
James, I'd read that too but I've also seen that the door flip is also due to crash egress in a roll over. On the left if the engine rolled to the right then the engineers door would probably be useless and the nose door with the hinges on the upper edge would make the door naturally fall closed. With it on the right the hinges would be on the lower side and the door naturally falls open.

Again I've read on forums frequented by railroad staff that the argument doesn't hold true. It works if the engine rolls right but if it rolls left then both doors have their hinges on their upper sides. In addition if the nose buries it's self in a roll to the right then it's possible that both doors could become ineffective.

I thought there was a door on the inner bulkhead, the opening is in the middle of the cab, I'll have a check through my photos tomorrow.

Has EMD/GMD changed their latest 70ACe's as well, without firing up the laptop.....it's late here....I can't recall if the doors Have moved from the traditional LH side.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
In a few odd hours I have lowered the brass boxcar by approximately 2mm by milling the centre of the body bolster and facing off the bogie (truck) pivots, primed with black etch primer, sprayed the body colour and applied most of the decals to one side so far.

A big improvement by lowering the ride height.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
2mm is a good bit of height adjustment, wish I could mill.... I thinned the same areas on an old Metalon covered hopper which came with coupler boxes soldered on. Still rode a bit high so I put plastic card spacers between the truck bolsters and sideframe tops. This compressed the springs, making the bolsters sit lower and dropping the body down enough. The trucks seem to be v old US Hobbies, stamped metal rotating caps on wheelsets with ribbed-back wheels.
Jason
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
The Canadian Pacific boxcar now has couplers and has had the first pass of the weathering applied.

cp1937e.jpg
cp1937f.jpg
cp1937c.jpg

I think I should have applied a dark wash around the rivet detail before air brushing the grime to bring out the detail better. I will see how a localised wash looks before deciding on more airbrushing. Also some road grime on the wheels, axles, underframe and lower body.

The Protocraft couplers work very well, coupling is far more subtle than with Kadees and the draft gear springing is in compression only so no slinky effect. Uncoupling is by magnetic wand.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
GEVO etch arrived.

IMG_9721.jpg

There's a strip missing off the left, it's a test etch for a future product so sadly cannot be shown just yet :thumbs:

Going through the post was tedious, but eventually I was able to get to my goodies I treated myself with for being away for three months.
IMG_9724.jpg

The top one is very rare, only two print runs I think, used 2nd hand they go for between £120-160, this I bagged 2nd hand still wrapped in cellophane for £75 plus postage from the US. I've been after one of these books for years and now I've got one on my shelf :cool:

The other two will be very helpful for some future projects I want to do for myself and to detail up one of my GP9's

MD
 

Peter

Western Thunderer
[The top one is very rare, only two print runs I think, used 2nd hand they go for between £120-160, this I bagged 2nd hand still wrapped in cellophane for £75 plus postage from the US. I've been after one of these books for years and now I've got one on my shelf :cool:

MD[/QUOTE]

Hi Mickoo,

A great book about a most interesting locomotive. Unfortunately, none of the original six was saved.

Peter
 
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