US Style Track in S - Jameston & Leven River RR

JimG

Western Thunderer
Another elephant in the room with this layout was how it was going to be supported. Going back over four years, I built the boards to fold up into a box and fit in my Citroen XZara estate.

S - Port Dundas

The Xzara is long gone now but I've now got a Dacia Logan MCV and it is a bit more spacious than the Xzara so there should be no problems??!! :)

But I had thoughts about supporting the layout. There was no room for legs on the underside of the boards and I didn't really want to rely on getting tables if I took it to exhibitions. So I thought about building a central girder to support it, with the girder standing on joiners' stands at exhibitions or on top of furniture at home as it does in my bedroom.

The girder is nine feet long and folds to a three foot length for carrying.

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...and opened out it looks like this...

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The two joints from the underside...

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...and the play in the catches and hinges is taken up by the threaded eye bolts and wing nuts. They can be adjusted to get the beam flat under load.

I opted to make one of the boards the "master" board which would be the one placed first and around which the others would fit.

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Two cross-bearers were fitted to this board with captive 10mm bolts in place.

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...and the board then placed on the beam and locked in place with the wing nuts on the bolts. Pilot holes for the 10mm screw holes had been drilled through beam and cross-bearers with the board held in place on the beam.

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The next board was then set in place but with one cross bearer at the extremity of the beam. The inner end of this board would get its vertical alignment from the paste table hinge between the back scene boards.

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The hole for the 10mm screw in the beam for this board is slotted to allow for the board swinging into place under the hinge action.

And the other two boards were fitted with two cross-bearers on the more central board and no cross bearer on the outer one since a screw on this one would be over-kill and a piece of packing to maintain level height would be all that is necessary. The screw holes in the beam for the inner board were also slotted to allow for the board to be slid into position on the latches and dowels.

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The next job will be to replace the end back-scene boards (removed to fit the layout in the bedroom :) ), re-couple up the hinges on the board pairs and check that they can be folded easily and that the boards can be mounted and de-mounted easily.

Jim.
 
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JimG

Western Thunderer
I used the end plates made to hold all four boards together as shown in this part of the old thread

S - Port Dundas

I cut them both in two to make up two pairs of boards for carrying.

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Excuse the weeds - they have just popped up in the last few days with the onset of the rain. :)

The pairs of boards are fairly portable and are certainly more portable than the four of them in one bundle. The original boards were quite lightweight but the addition of what is pretty well another baseboard on top of the originals to provide a raised base for the track has certainly increased the total weight. I need to re-think the carrying handles on the end plates to better suit single handed operation.

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I started a first full run of setting up the boards, but using the other adjustable stands I had got for use with the layout. This will allow me to set the layout at full Rice height if I ever want to. :)

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...and a couple of "F" clamps make sure that the beam can't tip over. The "F" clamps have the minimum head height to get in to the underside of the beam.

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The first pair are set on the beam and screwed down.

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The end boards are taken off preparatory to the upper board being hinged down into place, and I forgot to take a picture of the board in place. :)

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With the first two boards in place, the second pair is set in place on the beam, with one of the end boards already removed to provide clearance.

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The other end board is removed...

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...and the upper board is hinged down into place.

The whole operation took about fifteen minutes and wasn't too much of a hassle on my own. Having to do a bit of a jig around the various obstacles on the patio didn't help matters much. :) Stripping back down to component parts took about ten minutes so I could be first to get out of the hall at the end of an exhibition. :)

The next job will be to rehearse loading the car on my own and I'll try and do that tomorrow. The pairs of boards should fit in - the main concern might be finding room for the two stands but I think they will fit behind the front seats. There should be enough room for stock and equipment boxes to the rear of the wheel arches. If I satisfy myself that car loading will be OK then the layout will be set up in the lounge to get as much scenic work done as possible before Thornbury in November.

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Today was the car test and all went very well

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I dug out two sheets of thin ply to cover the floor to allow the layout bits to slide in - why do car manufacturers provide coarse fabric covering on floors, especially on an estate boot? :headbang:

The two pairs slid into place with the rear seats in the normal position and clearance to the glass on the rear door. In fact there is a cover over the rear windscreen wiper motor which just butts up against the boards and prevents them from getting any closer than about an inch from the glass. I had to get rid of two knobs off the left hand end to clear this cover. The folded beam and the small stands fit in, outside the layout boards. The large stands are too tall and if I decide to take them, I suspect that they will have to use the footwell of the rear seats to get enough headroom. I think I will do Thornbury on the small stands.

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And the proof of the pudding with the door closed. I had to post off some S scale parts so I used the trip to the Post Office to see how things went in the car, and everything was fine. I can still see a fair amount using the interior mirror. Everything is now back in the house to get set up again for working on the scenery.

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
If not I presume there's space between the rear doors and the layout. Not forgetting an overnight bag where necessary.

Dave,

It looks as though I can get all the layout parts in the rear of the car if I use the smaller stands. This leaves the rear seats available for anything else. I quite like this setup since the baseboards are held nicely between the seat backs and the rear door. If I take the larger stands then I will need to use the rear footwell if I stand them vertically. I could look at carrying them horizontally on top of the layout but I would be a bit worried about them moving forward in case of a shunt.

It's been thirty years since I last took a layout "on the road" but that layout was of such a size that a Luton Transit was required and I had a good local hirer who did an excellent weekend rate. But now any exhibition layouts have to fit in a car since at my age, I can't hire a van any more. But the work in getting this layout on the road has given me some ideas on the largest layout I could get into the Dacia. :)

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
I had to get the last bits of track laid - a car float with tracks to use as my form of hidden sidings and the track on the jetty.

I knocked up a car float from a ply top with a softwood frame underneath.

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Making the car float confirmed my fears that it would not really be possible to attempt to model an actual prototype since the freeboard required to suit my layout would be way in excess of the prototypes. So it was decided to make a purely functional assembly which will only be placed on the layout when cars are being loaded or unloaded. I also think that I will need some form of cover to place over the cars when moving the car float to keep them safely on the rails, and that definitely won't be prototypical. :)

The car float is supported at three points with a single fixed support at its outer end and two roller supports at the float bridge end.

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The rollers are small fixed castors from B&Q mounted on a bit of angle alloy screwed to the underframe with a slot on one screw to allow height adjustment. This means that the car float can be rolled up to the float bridge with not too much damage to the "water" surface.

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Lateral location is by a strip of brass screwed to the float bridge support and that bears on two roundhead brass wood screws on the car float which can be adjusted to get the lateral position correct and also to spring the brass slightly to give a bit of friction to keep the float in position. If I split the brass strip I could use this to feed power to the car float roads. This is definitely functional and I have some ideas for making a setup which would be better disguised on the float bridge support but that will mean dismantling of the float bridge and I'm not in a mood to contemplate that at the moment with the exhibition deadline drawing closer. :)

At the other end of the layout, the jetty needed a lot of work to get it completed. The basic frame was done, but it needed tracks and planks fitted.

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The scenery for this area is not started so the jetty is just placed in position to line up the rails, just seen poking in on the left. The rails are being spiked down in a similar way to the rest of the track using the P:87 spikes. It's a bit easier this time since I don't need to pre-drill the spike holes in the strip wood but a sewing needle in a small pin vice works as a bradawl for the spikes.

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The second set of rails being laid

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...and the rails getting a running test with the ore cars. :)

The next job was to start laying the planks on the top of the jetty frame.

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So far the longitudinal planking has been laid down the centre of the nearer track and outside the nearer rail and I've started doing the short latitudinal planking up the edge of the jetty - a really fiddly job. :) I think the jetty will take a day or two to complete and I'm not sure I've got enough of the required sizes of wood. So I'll just plough on until I run out and get an order off to Cornwall for whatever is still needed. :)

Jim.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
One of the methods used for car floats low free boards and with short spans and high tidal ranges are lock gates.

Not sure if your water runs the full length of the front of your layout, but you could just extend that middle bit out to the edge, that way you have a natural break left and right and two bits of water. Then where your car float is you could raise the water level to give you a more prototypical freeboard barge design.

It'd also allow two types of water, that under the pier being river with a slight chop or ripples to it, that in the lock section being nice and smooth and easier to roll your barge along. It'd also allow you to weather the pier to reflect a tidal range, it'd obviously be a lower tide than the lock gate area.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Mick,

I'm afraid I'm being hoist by my own petard. :) This was going to be a quickie layout and I can't remember what decisions were made when I opted to set the raised track level - around about here in the thread. I think it might have been to give enough height to accommodate the Tortoise motors and also give some working space between the original baseboard top and the underside of the raised track bed. The water does continue along the length of the layout albeit being quite narrow in a couple of places. I could look at putting in a false water level base along the whole layout to reduce the difference between water and rail level but I think that will have to be a plan for the future since it will mean a major rebuild of the jetty at least. Or I could just put up some shuttering and pour in some casting resin to the required height. :):):):)

I am assuming that with locks, the floats would have entered and waited for around high tide before shutting the gates to allow loading or off-loading, then waited till high tide again to open the gates and move out, or use valves to lower the lock water level to allow the gates to be opened before the next high tide. I'll have to go digging to see what the prototypes looked like.

Jim.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Jim, no need to raise the whole water level, just raise it in the float area and close off the gap between the two, thus making two discrete water areas.

Lock gates allow you to enter and exit in any tide state, the amount of water used to fill a lock from low tide to level with the basin is minimal when compared to the typical size of basin. Many basins are fed by inland waterways, usually streams which top them up naturally to the required level, the levels set by a wier at one end, so when full you have a natural run off and auto levelling system.

Locks are very common in areas with high tidal ranges or in areas where you need the vessel to have minimal tidal changes, typically rail and ro ro vessels, especially those with 3/4 stern ramps. Off the top of my head modern ones are Tilbury, Willemshaven, Zeebrugge who all have massive modern lock gates for large inland basins.

The original Dover train ferry had it's own special lock that was the rail terminal as well, the vessel sailed in and up to the link span then a gate closed behind and pumped the vessel up to minimise the angle of the short link span, in France I think it was either Cherbourg or Boulogne that also had a proper lock system with basin, also believe Dunkirque has a traditional lock set up.

Those that don't, I think Tilbury doesn't, then they wait until the river is at high tide and open a sluice and that fills the basin, in some cases they may also have a weir that allows high tide water to fill the basin.

If a float arrived at low tide then it just enters the lock, outer doors close and it is filled with water from the basin until it's the same level, then the inner gates open and in you sail. What many people forget is that the larger the vessel in the dock the less water you need to raise it, the volume of the hull takes the place of the water required to fill that space.

This way you can leave your lovely pier exactly how it is, remove the short section of water between the two by extending the dock wall outward to form a break, a strip 4-8" would suffice to form a visual break, then simply raise the water level in the dock area.

Best bit is that you don't have to do anything right now or rebuild anything you've already done, you just need to add the quay extension at the front before you add your water. I'll try and find a overall picture from here of your layout and add some graphics to it, which might help explain it a bit better.

It's just an idea if you ever wanted floats with lower freeboards that's all, there are genuine 1:1 ways to allow you to do that and raise your water level accordingly.

MD
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
There's always something like this?

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mickoo

Western Thunderer
Another alternative in early days to cope with high tide ranges was to make the rail deck adjustable to match the limited scope of the link span.

The other option is to go for some sort of powered vessel as opposed to barge or float, these would have a freeboard more akin to what Jim has now.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thanks Steph. On a third viewing I found that description. It's in such subdued typeface I missed it the first and second times.

I'd still like to know more. Where did the ferry go, and where from? I recognise it's nearly 100 years ago, but do any remains exist?

Brian
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
There's always something like this?

Bali%20Sea%20Stern.JPG

Dave,

If I modelled that to scale I reckon it would be bigger than the layout. :):) Where is it?

I've been thinking more about Mick's idea of a lock and I think I might be able to model one in section in the space available and raise the water level in it and reduce the freeboard on the car float to be something more prototypical for a small float. I can probably change tack on the car float board without too much hassle since the only thing already made which will have to be altered is the height of the car float.

I've got as far as I can with the planking on the jetty...

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...I've run out of stripwood to make the planks - a serious miscalculation when ordering initially. :) I've almost got enough to do the longitudinal planking on the second trak, but nothing to do the planking on the other side of the second track. A quick calculation dividing the area of the jetty by the area of a 6mm wide strip might have been a good idea at the time. :) I'll get another order off to Cornwall in the morning and I should have it back by the weekend since their delivery is usually pretty quick.

Jim.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Dave,

If I modelled that to scale I reckon it would be bigger than the layout. :):) Where is it?

I've been thinking more about Mick's idea of a lock and I think I might be able to model one in section in the space available and raise the water level in it and reduce the freeboard on the car float to be something more prototypical for a small float. I can probably change tack on the car float board without too much hassle since the only thing already made which will have to be altered is the height of the car float.

I've got as far as I can with the planking on the jetty...

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View attachment 91537

...I've run out of stripwood to make the planks - a serious miscalculation when ordering initially. :) I've almost got enough to do the longitudinal planking on the second trak, but nothing to do the planking on the other side of the second track. A quick calculation dividing the area of the jetty by the area of a 6mm wide strip might have been a good idea at the time. :) I'll get another order off to Cornwall in the morning and I should have it back by the weekend since their delivery is usually pretty quick.

Jim.
That jetty does look rather good :thumbs:

The idea of a lock gate in section would be great, but remember you'll need two and the distance between the two will have to accommodate the length of the car float. Your float is quite small so it's reasonable to expect the tug to be abeam for the voyage, better control and manoeuvrability as opposed to a line astern; so your lock gates only need to be just longer than the float apart.

Dock yard lock gates don't have arms on top like canals and most swing open into a recess in the lock side, plenty of opportunities for detailing and weathering, some will have steps cut in the side in a recess to allow crew to embark or disembark whilst in the lock.

If you can't realistically get the lock gate sections in then a wall either end of a central section to suggest it's an enclosed basin would be a good option, the lock gates could be off the board nearer the viewers so to speak.

I do like the overall feel to this layout, compact yet not overly so and lots opportunities to detailing and weathering, so many ideas kicking around in my head now for a small layout, as if I needed more distractions :p
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
The idea of a lock gate in section would be great, but remember you'll need two and the distance between the two will have to accommodate the length of the car float. Your float is quite small so it's reasonable to expect the tug to be abeam for the voyage, better control and manoeuvrability as opposed to a line astern; so your lock gates only need to be just longer than the float apart.

Dock yard lock gates don't have arms on top like canals and most swing open into a recess in the lock side, plenty of opportunities for detailing and weathering, some will have steps cut in the side in a recess to allow crew to embark or disembark whilst in the lock.

If you can't realistically get the lock gate sections in then a wall either end of a central section to suggest it's an enclosed basin would be a good option, the lock gates could be off the board nearer the viewers so to speak.

I was thinking about a single ended lock with the car float on the closed end and the lock gate at the other end - the left end in my case. Lock gates without arms would suit very well since I could not see how I could work in the space for arms in the space I have - the projecting building at the end of the lock rather restricts what can be done. I think I will use dressed stone for the lock sides. I have read that concrete was used for canal locks in the US but I think dressed stone would be more aesthetically pleasing.

I do like the overall feel to this layout, compact yet not overly so and lots opportunities to detailing and weathering, so many ideas kicking around in my head now for a small layout, as if I needed more distractions :p

You're welcome to come and do the scenic work. :) I'm out of my comfort zone here. On my last exhibition layout many years ago I chickened out of the scenic treatment and two S scale friends spent a long weekend doing it all for me. :)

Jim.
 
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