1/32 Wagons for the Garden

JimG

Western Thunderer
I've decided to start doing something about freight rolling stock for the garden. I've been doing a bit of work in S scale to produce wagon kits for the S Scale Society and I decided to upscale the work to 1:32 scale. The wagon body will be made from laser cut MDF and the underframe from machined wood parts.

The wagon to be made is a Caledonian Diagram 24 wagon which was a pretty straightforward general goods wagon with a side door. A start was made to produce the wooden parts for the underframe. I used a sheet of 4mm wood and thicknessed it on the milling machine to give the prototype thickness of 4.5" which is 3.6mm in 1:32 scale.

32Wagtons001.jpg

It all gets a bit messy and the workshop vacuum cleaner comes into its own. :) The sheet was actually close to 4.75mm thick (old 3/16") so there was a fair bit to remove.

32Wagtons002.jpg
The thicknessing is complete. The lower section closer to camera is to 2.6mm for the solebars since I intend to place a 1mm layer on the outside of the solebars to cover the heads of screws holding the "W" irons.

32Wagtons003.jpg

The main holes are starting to be cut with 4mm holes for the buffer stocks and 1.5mm slots for the coupling hooks.

32Wagtons004.jpg

Later on in the process, all the holes have been drilled, including the ones in the solebars to hold the "W" irons, the slots have been cut for the joints, and the cutter is now part way through the parting cuts between all the parts. There will be parts for two underframes.

32Wagtons005.jpg

The parts after cutting with a partial assembly of the solebars and the intermediate crossbeams in the foreground.

32Wagtons006.jpg

And as if by magic, a laser cut and glued body appears. You can't show much during laser cutting. :)

32Wagtons007.jpg

The underframe has been put together.

32Wagtons008.jpg

Sprung "W" irons have been etched and assembled with a bit of 13 thou guitar string as a spring. This has been the result of a few years of development and now works very well. I will make another photo tool to fine tune a couple of dimensions bit the present ones work very well as they are. I've made the "W" irons as individual units. It's an expensive way to get 28 thou nickel silver if I drew up the traditional "W" iron assembly. If I want to have the assemble then I will cut some strip of the appropriate size and solder a "W" iron on each end. :)

32Wagtons009.jpg

The underframe with the four "W" irons fitted using 10BA countersunk screws and nuts and washers.

32Wagtons010.jpg

The underframe is placed under the body and with a set of Slaters wheels fitted. I made use of my ER25 collet set to ballast the wagon to deflect the springs to the correct height. The collets weigh in at 330gms and the wagon parts at around 50gms. I only chose the 13 thou spring wire since it looked about right after my previous experience with springs. I haven't used Russ Elliot's formula as yet but I've no doubt it will come out with the same results from previous experience. I will be able to ballast the wagon by putting some lead sheet in the pocket in the centre of the underframe. If I can't get the weight of the lead up to 330 gms then I can reduce the size of the wire to 12 thou or 11 thou.

32Wagtons011.jpg

A close shot of one of the "W" irons shows the bearing in the correct position with the collet ballast with about 1mm gap at the top of the bearing slot. The "W" iron is designed to give +/- 1mm movement.

This wagon, and another set of body and underframe bits, will be the guinea pigs for a few other methods - like using the CNC mill on the laser cut sides to machine bevelling on the curb rail corners. I'm also workign on how I will represent the nuts on the platework.

I'm also debating on what to do about other hardware, like the springs, axleboxes and buffer stocks. If I can produce them fairly quickly on the CNC mill and the lathe then I might not consider getting them cast. But I'll wait until I've made a set when the temptation to get them cast might be too much. :)

Jim.
 

Simon

Flying Squad
Halleluja!!

High Fidelity wagons in Gauge One - I'm sitting back with my popcorn to enjoy the Jim G show:bowdown:

Well, that and bodging around with my own wagon related projects:p

Simon
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Just a wee bit further with the hardware for the wagons. Drummond designed quite a distinctive three bolt buffer stock for the Caledonian and having the correct type is really necessary, especially in the larger scales where detail tends to hit you between the eyes. :) Yesterday was spent messing around with drawings and code for the CNC mill and I had a run at machining the bases today.

32Wagtons013.jpg
Here is the machining completed after digging them out of a sheet of 12SWG brass (2.67mm). It took two hours or more since a lot of time was spent getting rid of a lot of brass around the nuts and the nut seats. I was thinking about making all the buffer stocks myself by machining for future wagons, but I don't think I will now with the time taken to machine the parts. I'll finish off these four for the wagon already started, but I'll make another single one to use as a master for lost wax casting.

32Wagtons014.jpg
I cleaned up all the rags and gave the surfaces a wipe with a glass fibre brush to take down the milling cutter marks. The nuts have come out quite well.

32Wagtons015.jpg
I also had a quick trial placement on the wagon buffer beam and they look pretty well spot on when compared with pictures. The next job will be to machine the conical barrels and I'll do that on the Cowells using the dials and set over topslide to get uniformity.

Jim.
 

Simon

Flying Squad
A beautiful piece of work Jim, they are certainly very distinctive.

Your name came up in conversation yesterday as I was discussing having some RCH and BR underframe and brake gear etches done in 1/32 scale by Justin Newitt.

Simon
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Your name came up in conversation yesterday as I was discussing having some RCH and BR underframe and brake gear etches done in 1/32 scale by Justin Newitt.

Simon,

Justin has done very good work for us in the S scale society and has given me a lot of help in sourcing castings for items such as axleboxes and springs for the society. If his 1:32 scale work is as good as his 4mm and S scale work, then you will have absolutely no problems. :)

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
I've almost lost a week of modelling time chasing up S Scale Society injection moulding tools but I think the hunt has been successful with a lot of help from people in the trade.

And during last week I got a delivery of a small piece of gauge plate from Ian Cobb - Ian supplies gauge plate in small lengths, other suppliers tend to supply in very long lengths which would be overkill in a grand manner. :) For those who don't know, gauge plate (or ground flat stock) is high carbon steel which can be machined then hardened and tempered to make cutting tools. I am looking to use the gauge plate to make a form tool for the conical part of the buffer body to see if I can make a go of turning out the buffers with good repeatability on the lathe rather than make a master for lost wax casting.

I drew up the profile of the buffer body then generated a file to machine it on the mill.

32Wagtons016.jpg
Here's the small piece of gauge plate being cut using a 1mm carbide cutter. It is being held at an angle so that the resulting tool will have some relief under the cutting edge. There's nothing highly precise here - I drew a 5 degree angle in CAD, printed it out to make a template and set the plate up to that angle in the vice. :) And I know that the profile should change with the angularity of the material but I did a few projections and found that I was dealing in a few hundreths of a millimetre in differences, so the idea was dropped. :)

32Wagtons017.jpg

...and here's the resulting tool after cutting, with the flare into the buffer base at the left and the outer end to the right. I'll wait for daylight tomorrow to heat and temper the tool so that I can see the colours accurately when heating.

I don't expect this tool to do all the cutting. It is about 10mm across the cutting edge which could put a fair old load on the tool if it was used on its own. So I'll rough turn with another narrower tool to get close to the profile then use the form tool to finish off.

Jim.
 

Dave Bowden

Western Thunderer
I've decided to start doing something about freight rolling stock for the garden. I've been doing a bit of work in S scale to produce wagon kits for the S Scale Society and I decided to upscale the work to 1:32 scale. The wagon body will be made from laser cut MDF and the underframe from machined wood parts.

The wagon to be made is a Caledonian Diagram 24 wagon which was a pretty straightforward general goods wagon with a side door. A start was made to produce the wooden parts for the underframe. I used a sheet of 4mm wood and thicknessed it on the milling machine to give the prototype thickness of 4.5" which is 3.6mm in 1:32 scale.

View attachment 64546

It all gets a bit messy and the workshop vacuum cleaner comes into its own. :) The sheet was actually close to 4.75mm thick (old 3/16") so there was a fair bit to remove.

View attachment 64547
The thicknessing is complete. The lower section closer to camera is to 2.6mm for the solebars since I intend to place a 1mm layer on the outside of the solebars to cover the heads of screws holding the "W" irons.

View attachment 64548

The main holes are starting to be cut with 4mm holes for the buffer stocks and 1.5mm slots for the coupling hooks.

View attachment 64549

Later on in the process, all the holes have been drilled, including the ones in the solebars to hold the "W" irons, the slots have been cut for the joints, and the cutter is now part way through the parting cuts between all the parts. There will be parts for two underframes.

View attachment 64550

The parts after cutting with a partial assembly of the solebars and the intermediate crossbeams in the foreground.

View attachment 64551


And as if by magic, a laser cut and glued body appears. You can't show much during laser cutting. :)

View attachment 64552

The underframe has been put together.

View attachment 64553

Sprung "W" irons have been etched and assembled with a bit of 13 thou guitar string as a spring. This has been the result of a few years of development and now works very well. I will make another photo tool to fine tune a couple of dimensions bit the present ones work very well as they are. I've made the "W" irons as individual units. It's an expensive way to get 28 thou nickel silver if I drew up the traditional "W" iron assembly. If I want to have the assemble then I will cut some strip of the appropriate size and solder a "W" iron on each end. :)

View attachment 64554

The underframe with the four "W" irons fitted using 10BA countersunk screws and nuts and washers.

View attachment 64555

The underframe is placed under the body and with a set of Slaters wheels fitted. I made use of my ER25 collet set to ballast the wagon to deflect the springs to the correct height. The collets weigh in at 330gms and the wagon parts at around 50gms. I only chose the 13 thou spring wire since it looked about right after my previous experience with springs. I haven't used Russ Elliot's formula as yet but I've no doubt it will come out with the same results from previous experience. I will be able to ballast the wagon by putting some lead sheet in the pocket in the centre of the underframe. If I can't get the weight of the lead up to 330 gms then I can reduce the size of the wire to 12 thou or 11 thou.

View attachment 64556

A close shot of one of the "W" irons shows the bearing in the correct position with the collet ballast with about 1mm gap at the top of the bearing slot. The "W" iron is designed to give +/- 1mm movement.

This wagon, and another set of body and underframe bits, will be the guinea pigs for a few other methods - like using the CNC mill on the laser cut sides to machine bevelling on the curb rail corners. I'm also workign on how I will represent the nuts on the platework.

I'm also debating on what to do about other hardware, like the springs, axleboxes and buffer stocks. If I can produce them fairly quickly on the CNC mill and the lathe then I might not consider getting them cast. But I'll wait until I've made a set when the temptation to get them cast might be too much. :)

Jim.

Hi Jim

I also have a laser cut wagon produced for me by Poppy Woodtech which is a GWR Open C wagon also known as a Tube wagon.

I was inspired by your chassis and now can see how to produce one similar for my wagon. I like your W Irons and springing method, as you only producing those for yourself? Are you aware that Evergreen produce angle that is a scale 9" that could be used for solebars.

IMG_6068.JPG

I haven't looked at sourcing the brakegear yet, this may be a problem! But the wagon was very cheap to produce after the setting up costs.
99965 Tube Wagon_R.jpg

The thumbnail is of an Open C taken by me on the SVR.

Dave
 
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JimG

Western Thunderer
I was inspired by your chassis and now can see how to produce one similar for my wagon. I like your W Irons and springing method, as you only producing those for yourself? Are you aware that Evergreen produce angle that is a scale 9" that could be used for solebars.

The "W" irons are from my own artwork and are done by PPD. They are a development from my original work in S scale a few years ago and I incorporated an idea I used when springing a couple of wagon kits for another member last year which keeps the spring retained at all times but still lets it be removed fairly easily to change wire gauge if necessary. My earlier versions would occasionally lose a spring connection to a bearing carrier which was something I didn't really want. :) At the moment I'm only intending modelling wooden underframes, so my present method will do. But I will have to venture into steel underframes sometime since the Caledonian started using steel underframes early in the twentieth century

I haven't looked at sourcing the brakegear yet, this may be a problem! But the wagon was very cheap to produce after the setting up costs.

The wagons I'm doing at the moment are single lever/single brake shoe so I'll probably scratchbuild them since there's not too much work in them. But I think I will probably have to do some etching for more sophisticated later types and I'd like to do at least one wagon with MacIntosh's patent brake gear.

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Well, it's been just over six years since I started this thread. :) Lots of things got in the way - like getting layouts ready for exhibition at Thornbury, a broken hip and serious Covid. :) The other major factor holding things up was the provision of hardware for the wagon - buffers, springs and axleboxes. I had started on machining parts for the buffer shanks but had got no further.

I started working on some 1:32 track again to re-start the interest in the railway in the garden and I needed a quick test for the crossing, and I dug out the wagon underframe to use as a test vehicle.

32Wagtons018.jpg

The standards are ScaleOne32, so the Slaters wheels had to be reprofiled to that standard. The turnout has interlaced sleepers using Cliff Barker's products. It's a bit of a fiddle getting everything in, but it gets there in the end. :)

I then started looking at finishing the wagon off. I've now been using 3D printers for over four years and one of the main products has been vehicle details for S scale, so it's no problem to scale parts up by two to suit 1:32.

However, a problem I ran into was in the springing of the axles. When I was trying to ballast the wagon to get the bearings in the centre position I was finding quite noticeable differences between wheels. Eventually the penny dropped. In my "W" iron design, one end of the spring is bent upwards to locate in a clip at the top of the "W" iron and this retains the spring in place. However, when the main part of the spring is deflected by the axle, this projecting part also rotates and contacts the end of its clip and adds more tension to the spring. And the variations were being caused by whether the bend in the spring was under or over ninety degrees. So I opted to dispense with the bend at the end and look for another way of retaining the wire.

32Wagtons026.jpg

I opted to try the smallest diameter of heat shrink sleeving - as you can see it is a real rattling fit on a 12 thou wire. But when I applied my soldering iron bit to it, I found that I could shrink and mould it onto the wire, and it really sticks in place.

32Wagtons024.jpg

So the springs were modified and things now seem much more predictable. :)

32Wagtons023.jpg

The body end supports were cut out of wood on the CNC machine although I think I will do this as a 3D print in future since there is a lot of nut and washer detail which would be part of the print.

32Wagtons028.jpg

So here's the wagon so far with axleboxes, springs and buffer stocks added - all 3D prints - and also the CNC cut end supports.

I debated what to do about the axleboxes to allow the movement required for the springing.

32Wagtons021.jpg

32Wagtons022.jpg

I opted to locate the axlebox on the end of the Slater's bearing and I was just about to manage that. You can see from the translucency in the axlebox body in the upper picture that there isn't much meat left between the bearing and the outside of a scale Drummond small axlebox. :) I also cut away a chunk of the top of the axlebox to accommodate the spring and allow movement.

32Wagtons027.jpg

This shot shows the location of the spring and axlebox and I might do a bit more fine tuning to reduce that gap.

Another problem I found was that there was just over 3mm side play on the axles when everything was in place.

32Wagtons025.jpg

...so I machined up some 1.5mm washers to pack the axles out

32Wagtons019.jpg

The next job was to machine the outer faces of the solebars in the CNC machine using styrene...

32Wagtons029.jpg

...and here's the result. It takes just over two hours to machine them but it's well worth it. :)

I'm now awaiting some more materials to arrive to make the buffer heads and spindles. And I'll set up to CNC mill the coupling hooks.

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Glad to hear your health has improved, sounds like you had a rough time of it.
Simon,

I think I came out of the experience reasonably well considering my age. I have to thank the two professors at Oxford who set up a blind test programme of various medications to treat Covid with hospital trusts all over the country - long before the government started taking action. I think I was pretty well a basket case when I got to hospital and a doctor thought I might like to sign up for the blind test program, which I did. I suspect it wasn't much of a blind test since he probably knew by that time that Dexamethasone had had good results. So I finished up with a CPAP mask on overnight and an intravenous drip of dexamethasone for several weeks and actually survived Covid quite well with not too many after effects. But what was really affected were my hips. I caught Covid one week after coming out of rehab after my broken hip surgery and was still doing a lot of physio to get the joint back into good working order. Instead of that, I was flat on my back for several weeks with Covid, and the hip has never really recovered from that.

So for the last two years I've been trying to come to terms with my dodgy hips and getting extremely frustrated when I could no longer achieve what I used to be able to do. But I've now accepted that it's going to take longer to do things. I repaired the flat roof of my garage in the recent good spell of weather and replaced all the fascia boarding. I did it on my own and it would probably have taken me a couple of days in better times, but it took me nearly two weeks this time round. But I opted to go at a speed which suited me and it worked out OK. So I'm learning not to hassle things as I might have done in the past. :).

I've still got problems with doing anything that requires a lot of standing - like operating the lathe, or working on, or operating a layout , but I'm working on that. :)

Jim.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Wow, talk about bad timing! Pleased to hear that you’re on the mend, doing a bit of roofing, that’s the spirit!

I had a very minor coronary as a direct result of Covid, it really wasn’t a great thing to get…

I know it goes against the grain, but could you operate the lathe (or indeed, the layout) from a stool, or at least perch on it from time to time?
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
I know it goes against the grain, but could you operate the lathe (or indeed, the layout) from a stool, or at least perch on it from time to time?

I've tried with a high stool but I finish up too far away from the lathe. My normal lathe operating position is standing with the cross-slide handle nearly in my belly button. :)

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Things are progressing a bit.

I cut a set of coupling hooks from brass sheet to see how that worked and it went well...

32Wagtons030.jpg

An image of the shape was copied from the Diagram24 wagon GA into my 2D CAD program and I traced the drawing from that for the CNC file.

I bjuilt up a second body of the open wagon which I had CNC and laser cut some years ago and then drew up some new files to build up a longer 16' 3" underframe on a 9' wheelbase, this for a Caledonian Diag 5 brake van and 6T van, both using the same underframe.

32Wagtons031.jpg

The two open wagons venturing onto a buit of track in the garden :), along with the two underframes for the brake and the van.

I also had to source five foot springs for the brake van so that required a day or two of messing around with Solid Edge. My previous 3D prinbted springs had files drawn in Fusion 360 and I had developed a method to draw them in that software. But Solid edge is a slightly different beast, so I spent a couple of days messing around until I worked out a way of doing springs in it.

32Wagtons032.jpg

And here they are. :) The problem with springs is that you have to chamfer the longitudinal edges of the leaves so that they look like separate pieces when printed. And you often have to fiddle with the size of the chamfers until the springs look believable and nothing like a scale representation. In my 1:32 springs the leaves are a scale 1/2" thick, so 0.4mm thick on the model. I applied a 0.1mm x 0.1mm chamfer to the edges of the leaves, and that seems to have given an acceptable result first time. I think if I went any finer with the chamfers then the 3D printer wouldn't reproduce the effect.

In my method with Fusion 360, I could set up the chamfer sizes as variables so that if I wanted to change the chamfers I only had to change the values in the variables for the change to reflect through the complete spring drawing in an instant. I think I can do the same in Solid Edge, but I haven't worked that out yet. :) At the moment all the spring leaves are separate parts which are assembled together so i can change the chamfer in each part which then reflects through into the complete assembly, which wouldn't take too long.

I've also been getting together tools and materials to deal with the coupling rods and crankpins for the loco.

Jim.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Jim,

if it helps, I model my springs in Solidworks as a solid lump, each leaf as an arc from a common centre point, incrementing the radius by the leaf thickness. I then trim the leaf ends and extrude the leaf width.

the gaps between the leaves are formed from a swept cut, again, same centre point/axis. The form of the cutting edge is a series of “v” shapes, as many as required. This can be parametrised, so it’s easy to adjust all the grooves simultaneously. I guess it would probably be more accurate if I used a series of “)” to do the edges of the leaves

where the leaves have chamfered corners, as yours have, I do that as a separate cut (extruded cut on the radius)

and then add the centre buckle and end fittings.
hth
Simon
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
if it helps, I model my springs in Solidworks as a solid lump, each leaf as an arc from a common centre point, incrementing the radius by the leaf thickness. I then trim the leaf ends and extrude the leaf width.

the gaps between the leaves are formed from a swept cut, again, same centre point/axis. The form of the cutting edge is a series of “v” shapes, as many as required. This can be parametrised, so it’s easy to adjust all the grooves simultaneously. I guess it would probably be more accurate if I used a series of “)” to do the edges of the leaves

I do something similar, but generate circles from a common centre point. I did try generating an arc then using the Offset command to generate subsequent arcs, but my copy of Solid Edge didn't seem to like that and gave me some spurious funnies, so I used the circle method. I then draw the spring ends between circle pairs and extrude the faces formed to create the individual spring bodies to which the small chamfers are added, doing the same job as your swept cut. The larger chamfers on the spring ends are straightforward. All the spring leaves are saved as separate parts and assembled into a complete spring using the Solid Edge assembly method - which I think is how Solid Edge like people to do things. :)

I suspect that there are several better ways to do springs and I'll maybe do a bit more research when I've got a day or two to spare. :) I downloaded the latest 2023 version of the software at the beginning of the year and haven't done much work with it so far. They have done a complete re-jig of the interface so it's been a learning exerience to find my way around. :)

Jim.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Rearranging the menus in well-used software is almost as annoying as moving the canned stuff in the local supermarket!
 
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