Wiring help needed!

Simon Glidewell

Simon Glidewell

Western Thunderer
Could some kind person help me here with some wiring info? I posted this question on the Scalefour society forum when I was still a member a few months ago. It shows the bisected point that I've been building, and Nigel Cliffe kindly drew a coloured electrical diagram for me (over the prototype point) with a description of how the switching would work. What I need now is a wiring diagram showing how the three polarity switches are connected to the point via the three crossings (numbered 1 to 3) in relation to the coloured track diagram. I'm hopeless with electrics! I've tried to send Nigel a personal message on here but there seems to be no PM facility under his name. Any help gratefully received! Many thanks. Simon.

http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3989
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Simon,
Is this DCC or analogue? There's a slightly crooked shortcut if it's DCC...
It is entirely possible to to it with conventional switching in analogue though; just a bit tricky for me to reply on my mobile!
Steph
 
adrian

adrian

Flying Squad
Simon Glidewell said:
I've tried to send Nigel a personal message on here but there seems to be no PM facility under his name.
Click to expand...
It depends what privacy setting are applied whether the PM facility is available. You can flag an alert for any member by using the @ followed by their name, it should pop up with matching names as you type - so this should flag @Nigel Cliffe as being mentioned in dispatches.
 
Simon Glidewell

Simon Glidewell

Western Thunderer
Steph Dale said:
Simon,
Is this DCC or analogue? There's a slightly crooked shortcut if it's DCC...
It is entirely possible to to it with conventional switching in analogue though; just a bit tricky for me to reply on my mobile!
Steph
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply Steph. It's DC and very old fashioned like me!
 
JimG

JimG

Western Thunderer
Simon Glidewell said:
Thanks for your reply Steph. It's DC and very old fashioned like me!
Click to expand...
Simon,

Just a quick reaction at the moment.

Crossing No.1 is only affected by the switching of the turnout feeding routes A & B, therefore it should be a normal polarity changing switch associated with the tie bar of this turnout.

Crossings No.2 and 3 are both affected by the setting of the turnout feeding Route C. When this turnout is normal and not set to Route C, Crossing No.2 is fed from the red rail supply and Crossing 3 from the blue track supply. When this turnout is reversed and the route is Route C, the situation is reversed and Crossing 2 is fed from the blue supply and Crossing 3 from the red supply. This switching could be handled by a two pole two way switch operated from the tie bar of the turnout.

You might need some protections on the arrangement to avoid shorts since the Route C turnout will cause shorts if it is reversed and you are trying to run through either Routes A or B. An operator not fully au fait with the wiring, and trying to run a train through Route B, might wonder why things have come to a grinding halt with shorts when he/she doesn't realise the culprit is a reversed turnout about a foot or two away from the complex. :) The answer might be DCC and a hex frog juicer. :)

Jim.
 
Simon Glidewell

Simon Glidewell

Western Thunderer
JimG said:
Simon,

Just a quick reaction at the moment.

Crossing No.1 is only affected by the switching of the turnout feeding routes A & B, therefore it should be a normal polarity changing switch associated with the tie bar of this turnout.

Crossings No.2 and 3 are both affected by the setting of the turnout feeding Route C. When this turnout is normal and not set to Route C, Crossing No.2 is fed from the red rail supply and Crossing 3 from the blue track supply. When this turnout is reversed and the route is Route C, the situation is reversed and Crossing 2 is fed from the blue supply and Crossing 3 from the red supply. This switching could be handled by a two pole two way switch operated from the tie bar of the turnout.

You might need some protections on the arrangement to avoid shorts since the Route C turnout will cause shorts if it is reversed and you are trying to run through either Routes A or B. An operator not fully au fait with the wiring, and trying to run a train through Route B, might wonder why things have come to a grinding halt with shorts when he/she doesn't realise the culprit is a reversed turnout about a foot or two away from the complex. :) The answer might be DCC and a hex frog juicer. :)

Jim.
Click to expand...

Many thanks Jim! You make it all sound so simple but to me it represents a nightmare; when I decided to build it I knew it would be a tricky one to wire. If I had a wiring diagram that would clinch it though.
 
Neil

Neil

Western Thunderer
Here's how I'd wire it up Simon, with one single pole changeover switch linked to the tiebar and a separate unlinked double pole changeover switch with which you select manually either the routes through the point (A & B) or the route which bisects the point (C).

wiring diagram.jpg

It looks a bit intimidating in a snakes honeymoon sort of way, but if you take just one switch at a time (possibly redrawing each separately) it should start to make sense.
 
Simon Glidewell

Simon Glidewell

Western Thunderer
That's brilliant Neil! I really appreciate the time you've taken to draw this up for me! I wish I knew about these things but I don't, but give me an embankment to build and make it look convincing, then that's my department!
 
Simon Glidewell

Simon Glidewell

Western Thunderer
Many thanks Neil! I can't wait to finish the blighter so that I can move on and start track laying in earnest and get on with the scenic side of things. I wish I had the space to build a layout like your very atmospheric north Wales opus which is going to look splendid!
 
N

Nigel Cliffe

Western Thunderer
And the flag thing seemed to work....

I agree with Neil's wiring suggestion. Yes, its a lot of spaghetti, but break it down and it makes sense - start with the fixed wires (red and blue), and then trace how the other components change depending on the switch settings.
One additional feature would be to attach the "independent" switch to either any signalling, or the turnouts which approach the cross-over: the turnout visible to the top right, or the one just off-scene in bottom left.
 
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