7mm Wolverton Workhorse

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
After having received some useful advice last week on cleaning tarnished etches, I spent a pleasant few hours at Troon today mainly socialising and returned home around 2.30 whence the rain commenced. It seemed sensible to hide in the workshop for a bit and I thought to make a start, so I did.
IMG_0518.JPG
The inevitable boring bit of removing bits from the etch and cleaning tags and cusps. My preferred method is this very old but sharp 1/4" chisel, a gentle tap and lo bit removed, tiny parts need more care so they don't disappear into the ether/carpet. I have all the main carcass components cleaned so the next terror is rolling the tumblehome, unfortunately spare broom handles are in short supply but I did find a scrap length of 22mm copper tube which I reckon will do. Tomorrow threatens to be either a trip round carpet suppliers or this progressing, hmmm.

IMG_0519.JPG
This is the rake the full brake is destined for, which I have had for ten years or so. I'd like to fib and pretend I built them, but in truth they were a bit of an impulse at Telford one year, on the back of some pretty well paid consultancy work, and after the wild women and strong drink, I thought to squander some money on toys. I'm somewhat embarrassed to realise that they have been out of the box half a dozen times in the intervening period and I think they may only have run once, pretty stupid I guess, the wee one should get what I paid for them in due course.

I don't intend a step by step build of the full brake, it's pretty standard Sidelines, unless anyone desparately wants me to. Indicate so in this thread if you so wish.
regards
Martin
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Fair enough Phil. As I suggested yesterday carpets have become the burning topic of domestic conversation so off we set. Three hours later we got home having agreed a price to recarpet the hall and landing, two living rooms and two bedrooms, how did that happen although I'm not complaining as it ends the interminable trail around showrooms.

The next bit is an hour in the workshop.
IMG_0520.JPG
The component parts of the basic box, one advantage of using a chisel to part the tags is the ability to get very close to the edge of the panel so minimising the cleaning up of edges. I largely followed Malcolm Binns recommended tumblehome forming method,
IMG_0521.JPG
The side is set face down about halfway across a piece of 2" masking tape,
IMG_0522.JPG
The rolling bar is aligned, in this case with the bottom edge of the windows, and then rolled to pick up the sticky side of the tape, having done so the tape is smoothed down on the bar and the side pulled in taut to the bar. I then differed from Sidelines approach,
IMG_0523.JPG
This is what they suggest you do, hold it vertically and using your thumbs press the bottom edge of the side around the rolling bar. I tried this but I couldn't get enough purchase to form the brass, so I reverted to a horizontal process pressing the brass against the bar and obviously the bench. This worked although I wonder in hindsight whether a slight annealing would have been beneficial, given the kit has been stored for some years. Frequent checking against the ends got me pretty close, sufficiently so that the eventual soldering will pull it in nicely.
IMG_0524.JPG
It looks as though the bend isn't constant, it is, I think the angle of the photo gives an illusion. At least that's the scary bit done.
I was going to start assembling the ends until I realised no flux, so I've found a local supplier of phosphoric acid who will hopefully sell me a small quantity. Apparently it is now a reportable poison, so I see what transcribes tomorrow.
Regards
Martin
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
I found a supplier of phosphoric acid, reasonably near, and able to sell small quantities. This did involve a trip to deepest Ayrshire, always frought with trepidation but nonetheless I returned safely with these.
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500ml of acid and 1l of water for the princely sum of £9. A 1:2 mix gives me 60ml of flux at 25% concentration for the sum of 36p. A Colmans jar provides ready use storage, other mustards are available.
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The end mounting brackets were bent, nuts soldered in place and the bend soldered. The job was set up using some scrap from the floor etch to lift the bracket such that the floor when fitted will be flush with the bottom of the end, and duly fixed.
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The finished article. I can only apologise for the less than invisible and puddingy soldering, in mitigation, this was the first use of the new iron in anger, bit sizes are somewhat critical when your using solder of which the melting temperature is unknown, possibly 280 deg, 179 would have been more than adequate, and I was trying out a new flux. They are my excuses anyway, besides it's all hidden eventually.
Regards
Martin
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
A 25% concentration is stronger than you need. I make my own at about 10% which seems to work fine.

Richard
 

michael080

Western Thunderer
500ml of acid and 1l of water for the princely sum of £9. A 1:2 mix gives me 60ml of flux at 25% concentration for the sum of 36p. A Colmans jar provides ready use storage, other mustards are available.

Martin,
I read some discussions about "wettability" of surfaces. It appears that adding some 10%-20% of ISO-propanol improves the wettability of the phosphoric acid, so that the capillary action pulls the flux into the gap between surfaces to be soldered. My own 1l bottle of phosporic acid supplies enough material for some trials, I tested with 20% and I think that this improves the useability of the flux.

Michael
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Learning plenty already, especially about using the chisel to remove the etched parts from the etch. :)

Hi Phil,

I too use a chisel for cutting from the etch I then use some topiary scissors to tidy the tag up- it reduces a lot of the need to file off tags.
 

Mr Grumpy

Western Thunderer
Fair enough Phil. As I suggested yesterday carpets have become the burning topic of domestic conversation so off we set. Three hours later we got home having agreed a price to recarpet the hall and landing, two living rooms and two bedrooms, how did that happen although I'm not complaining as it ends the interminable trail around showrooms.

The next bit is an hour in the workshop.
View attachment 86310
The component parts of the basic box, one advantage of using a chisel to part the tags is the ability to get very close to the edge of the panel so minimising the cleaning up of edges. I largely followed Malcolm Binns recommended tumblehome forming method,
View attachment 86312
The side is set face down about halfway across a piece of 2" masking tape,
View attachment 86313
The rolling bar is aligned, in this case with the bottom edge of the windows, and then rolled to pick up the sticky side of the tape, having done so the tape is smoothed down on the bar and the side pulled in taut to the bar. I then differed from Sidelines approach,
View attachment 86314
This is what they suggest you do, hold it vertically and using your thumbs press the bottom edge of the side around the rolling bar. I tried this but I couldn't get enough purchase to form the brass, so I reverted to a horizontal process pressing the brass against the bar and obviously the bench. This worked although I wonder in hindsight whether a slight annealing would have been beneficial, given the kit has been stored for some years. Frequent checking against the ends got me pretty close, sufficiently so that the eventual soldering will pull it in nicely.
View attachment 86315
It looks as though the bend isn't constant, it is, I think the angle of the photo gives an illusion. At least that's the scary bit done.
I was going to start assembling the ends until I realised no flux, so I've found a local supplier of phosphoric acid who will hopefully sell me a small quantity. Apparently it is now a reportable poison, so I see what transcribes tomorrow.
Regards
Martin
Top marks on the tumblehome, I had to repeatedly anneal my Stove R sides, and they are probably only 1/2 the length of yours...but just as thick :confused:
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
Top marks on the tumblehome, I had to repeatedly anneal my Stove R sides, and they are probably only 1/2 the length of yours...but just as thick :confused:

I have always been concerned about annealing things like coach sides. Only the bottom half needs annealing and will expand and contract, not necessarily to them same dimension.

Even if the whole thing is heated, say with gas torch, it cannot be done evenly and so the same may occur with potential warping.

Hopefully someone will tell me I am talking complete rubbish and get a proper life.

I ask because I am intending to get a 50' brake or Stove R and the thickness of the brass looks quite intimidating.

Ken
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Michael
Thanks for the tip, I had read elsewhere tha isoprop was a good idea, however when I asked for some at the pharmacy in my local supermarket tonight, despite having three or so enquiries for it each week, they didn't have it nor did there wholesale supplier so I'm back to Google yet again.
Heather
If I wanted to coat my model in sugar al la Masterchef there are cheaper ways, but actually I quite like it occasionaly.
Ken
I understand your reluctance however I think that annealing this thickness of brass doesn't really need a lot of heat, we only need to remove work hardening rather than softening it for another process. If you look at Rob P's 06 build he annealed the tender sides and used a probably smaller diameter bending rod, I think his formed curve is better than mine. I know it's a daunting process and you really only get one go, you'll be fine deep breaths etc.
Mr Grumpy
Thanks, soldering the ends to the sides will be the ultimate test of how well I've done.

I had intended to do some more today, the real world intruded.
Martin
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Michael
Thanks for the tip, I had read elsewhere tha isoprop was a good idea, however when I asked for some at the pharmacy in my local supermarket tonight, despite having three or so enquiries for it each week, they didn't have it nor did there wholesale supplier so I'm back to Google yet again.

Martin,

I now get my chemicals off Ebay - Isoprop, Butanone, etc. The prices are usually good and they don't seem to have problems delivering.

Jim.
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Thanks Jim
I understand you can get it from Asda, but a man came to measure for the carpets today so I couldn't get out. I'll have a go tomorrow.
Martin
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,

I do my coach sides exactly the same as you the only difference is my bit of pipe is much longer allowing you to get a good grip on the ends to twist.

I detailed how I did it in this post here on WT (from the 4th image down) for that one I didn't aneal the coach sides before bending.
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Thanks Rob, glad to see I was generally in the right place. As you rightly point out the pipe could have been longer, I'll remember for next time.
Regards
Martin
 

Kev T

Western Thunderer
I thought in order to soften brass you had to anneal it with heat to cherry red colour then allow to cool slowly. I tried this with disastrous results on a sidelines coach. Fortunately Malcom Binns was a gent and helped me out. I now use brute force and ignorance, I'm good at that!!

How should I be doing it?

Kev
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
I liked the look of this coach so bought one today, the previous post highlights my concerns about annealing.

Ken
 
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