Work in progress - now the X factor !

[Phill Dyson]

Work in progress

Interesting stuff this Cynric, I was somewhat supprised to read you were considering 4mm :shock: ...........but I'm glad to see you appear to be over that one now :laugh: . One thing that does occur to me if I dare say it is, have you considered doing 7mm finescale rather than S7 ?, as an outsider the ultra-finescale nature of S7 seems to over complicate things & mean that kits take forever to build :scratch:

Phill :wave:

 

[28ten]

Work in progress

Interesting stuff this Cynric, I was somewhat supprised to read you were considering 4mm  :shock: ...........but I'm glad to see you appear to be over that one now    :laugh: . One thing  that does occur to me if I dare say it is, have you considered doing 7mm finescale  rather than S7 ?, as an outsider the ultra-finescale nature of S7    seems to over complicate things & mean that kits take forever to build  :scratch:

Phill  :wave:

Yes, and I am  .
TBH Phil,  the problem with 7mm is the time it takes to achieve anything when working alone, im the sort of person who gets lots of ideas, but I need to act quickly-  the build time and cost for a layout precludes this so I get frustrated. one of the undeniable benefits of 4mm is that is is possible to economically speed up this process. as I said, I envy people like you who have a 'vision' and stick to it. all my 'visions' suffer from 'strategic drift'  :laugh:

I have done some more clearing this afternoon and this shot shows the distance from my desk to the far wall with a 7mm and 4mm hymek next to each other, hopefully it gives a sense of the distance. I know its not much to the gardeners but its quite a way indoors

 

[lancer1027]

Work in progress

[quote=""Phill Dyson""k3pkh4u]Interesting stuff this Cynric, I was somewhat supprised to read you were considering 4mm :shock: ...........but I'm glad to see you appear to be over that one now :laugh: . One thing that does occur to me if I dare say it is, have you considered doing 7mm finescale rather than S7 ?, as an outsider the ultra-finescale nature of S7 seems to over complicate things & mean that kits take forever to build :scratch:

Phill :wave:

Yes, and I am .
TBH Phil, the problem with 7mm is the time it takes to achieve anything when working alone, im the sort of person who gets lots of ideas, but I need to act quickly- the build time and cost for a layout precludes this so I get frustrated. one of the undeniable benefits of 4mm is that is is possible to economically speed up this process. as I said, I envy people like you who have a 'vision' and stick to it. all my 'visions' suffer from 'strategic drift' :laugh:

I have done some more clearing this afternoon and this shot shows the distance from my desk to the far wall with a 7mm and 4mm hymek next to each other, hopefully it gives a sense of the distance. I know its not much to the gardeners but its quite a way indoors[/quotek3pkh4u]

Hi Cynric, I think we all suffer from lack of progress whether its because of cost , time or enthusiasm. Over a 9 year period ( thats the length of time i've been modelling in O ) i have struggled with all these issues and i look at friends at my railway club who model in 4mm and think why do i bother. However i took about 3/4 years before i finally stuck with a "vision" and even though i had, once at a show (telford) i saw all the other kits n bits i could get and found that it was very distracting. quite easily divert away from my "vision" After a while i finally stuck to my guns and here we are WR Hydraulics.

 

[28ten]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

A bit more measuring last night suggests that I would be down to 5'9 curves in places, how workable is this?

 

[Ressaldar]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

Hi Cynric,

5'9" should be quite workable especially if you keep to the smaller wheel/wheelbase steam locos and short wheelbase and bogie stock. Bo-Bo diesels should be ok as well. Also the recently? released Peco curved points have an inside radius of 5'8" and there must be a fair few modellers out there using these without much difficulty. It's what to do with the void behind these tight curves that is the problem.

regards

Mike

 

[Dikitriki]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

A bit more measuring last night suggests that I would be down to 5'9 curves in places, how workable is this?

Hi Cynric

Very - but depending on whether you are considering S7 or F/S. Assuming F/S, I work on the basis that anything can be got round 6' radius, and with a well-laid 5'9", it follows that nearly everything can be got round that. The inner running loop on Heyside where it returns to the storage yard is 5' 9 1/2". Providing you start the build with that in mind, and test at every stage, you will be OK. My A3 which has very few compromises goes round it, as does my Duchess and class 44 Peak, though they are on the limit of what they will take. Things that require compromise would include long wheelbase locos where the front bogie wheel runs inside the front steps (Lord Nelson, crab even), oddities such as the W1, and large cylinder locos where the bogie swing is restricted (Grange, where I had to move the cylinders out a bit).

Regards

Richard

 

[Neil]

Work in progress

.... TBH Phil, the problem with 7mm is the time it takes to achieve anything when working alone, im the sort of person who gets lots of ideas, but I need to act quickly- the build time and cost for a layout precludes this so I get frustrated. one of the undeniable benefits of 4mm is that is is possible to economically speed up this process. as I said, I envy people like you who have a 'vision' and stick to it. all my 'visions' suffer from 'strategic drift' :laugh: ....

A friend, a successful novelist, has told me that all authors get to a point where creeping dissatisfaction sets in with what they've done so far. It's so predictable that it sets in at about the same word count each time. He said that it's the ability to push oneself through this stage that sorts out the men from the boys, and that scrapping and starting again isn't an option, as all it can lead to is a growing collection of half novels. As he was speaking the parallels with unfinished layout syndrome were so obvious; holding this thought in my head has helped me plough on when feeling a bit bogged down, tweak rather than scrap and start again, or hold station while I try something else (goats) before returning with fresh eyes and enthusiasm.

 

[iploffy]

Work in progress

[quote=""28ten"":2abmkk41].... TBH Phil, the problem with 7mm is the time it takes to achieve anything when working alone, im the sort of person who gets lots of ideas, but I need to act quickly- the build time and cost for a layout precludes this so I get frustrated. one of the undeniable benefits of 4mm is that is is possible to economically speed up this process. as I said, I envy people like you who have a 'vision' and stick to it. all my 'visions' suffer from 'strategic drift' :laugh: ....

A friend, a successful novelist, has told me that all authors get to a point where creeping dissatisfaction sets in with what they've done so far. It's so predictable that it sets in at about the same word count each time. He said that it's the ability to push oneself through this stage that sorts out the men from the boys, and that scrapping and starting again isn't an option, as all it can lead to is a growing collection of half novels. As he was speaking the parallels with unfinished layout syndrome were so obvious; holding this thought in my head has helped me plough on when feeling a bit bogged down, tweak rather than scrap and start again, or hold station while I try something else (goats) before returning with fresh eyes and enthusiasm.[/quote:2abmkk41]


This is getting far to deep for my brain to accept
All I will say is Cynric THERE IS LOADS OF ROOM STOP WORRYING HAVE FUN build the layout and let 'em run

Ian

 

[28ten]

Work in progress

A friend, a successful novelist, has told me that all authors get to a point where creeping dissatisfaction sets in with what they've done so far. It's so predictable that it sets in at about the same word count each time. He said that  it's the ability to push oneself through this stage that sorts out the men from the boys, and that scrapping and starting again isn't an option, as all it can lead to is a growing collection of half novels. As he was speaking the parallels with unfinished layout syndrome were so obvious; holding this thought in my head has helped me plough on when feeling a bit bogged down, tweak rather than scrap and start again, or hold station while I try something else (goats) before returning with fresh eyes and enthusiasm.

I fully concur with that, it has always been one of my problems. unless im working for someone else im just not a 'completer finisher' I find it much easier finishing on someone elses model/project.

I have fired up AutoCad and Templot this morning and produced a rough concept. the minimum radius is just on six foot, so I can get a single track circuit with a passing loop. the number of removable sections and the tight radii totally rule out S7

 

[westernfan]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

with my 7mm model railway currently packed away until i can afford a purpose built shed to house it i could only dream of having a 28ft long room to build a model railway in . my dream shed is only going to be 20ft x 12ft , and in that space i am considering a rationalised model of Great Torrington which can be built using only four points and a single slip for the station and dairy .re curve radius my locos were only the type youd find on a secondary line but they all ran without misshap on my 4ft radius curves so Dont give up :wave:

westernfan

 

[Neil]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

.... .re curve radius my locos were only the type you'd find on a secondary line but they all ran without misshap on my 4ft radius curves so Don't give up :wave:

westernfan

To get Morfa (EM) to fit how I wanted it to fit I've had to go down to 2'6" radius at one spot and three feet at another. Actually the three feet bit doesn't look at all sharp though it does have the benefit of a four foot radius lead in, and the 2'6" doesn't grate either.

EDIT: The thought has just struck me that there are two ways of coming at this minimum radius lark. There's the one where you look at the dimensions of the space you can use and work out what will fit; if the tightest spot dictates a six foot radius then anything less can leave one feeling short changed. The other looks at the actual physical limit of the stock, if you can be more generous then there's a feeling that one has gained something. Perhaps the second way is more prevalent in the smaller gauges (anything better than set track is a good thing) but it should have even more benefits for those working in the larger scales as the eyes and brain register sizes both in full and model relative sizes. A 1'3" radius curve in N gauge looks pretty sharp, a 2'6" curve in OO doesn't look as compromised. Proportionately in model terms it's the same, but viewed in isolation it's twice the size. I have an idea that Simon's Pomparles siding would look a bit cartoony in N gauge, but it escapes that in gauge one because of the much bigger size.

 

[28ten]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

4ft sounds tight I think what grates sometimes is not so much the radius but as Neil suggests the lead in, nothing looks less prototypical that a straight bit of track leading into a sharp curve, starting with a larger radius makes a huge difference.
Any way I am now grappling with curved turnout geometry in templot you cant throw much off the inside of a six foot curve thats for sure! so I will have to do some more poking about...

 

[Dikitriki]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

Hi Cynric

Do you have anything in F/S in runnable condition that you wish to test? The reason I ask is that the branch curve on Heyside is laid to an exact 5'6" - though it doesn't look that tight - and if you wanted to test something round that, you would be welcome.It may give you a bit more flexibility and confort knowing that your stuff will go round it. On the other hand, if it doesn't, you will at least know where you stand.

Richard

 

[westernfan]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

4ft sounds tight    I think what grates sometimes is not so much the radius but as Neil suggests the lead in, nothing looks less prototypical that a straight bit of track leading into a sharp curve, starting with a larger radius makes a huge difference.
Any way I am now grappling with curved turnout geometry in templot    you cant throw much off the inside of a six foot curve thats for sure! so I will have to do some more poking about...

you are both right about starting in with a larger radius curve i am currently test laying some oo track at the moment the oval is approx 9ft6in x6ft the curves start about 4ft radius down to 2ft radius using tracksettas .re my o gauge 4ft radius curve i had no other choice  i think you all have seen the image of it with a class 121 rounding the curve . with hind sight i should have modelled check rails and named the halt Watergate. :lol:

 

[28ten]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

Richard , I have a Hymek and a 14xx, so I'm pretty confident about both of them, but I will find a 9f hard to resist when it comes out, and that will be a different kettle of fish! I can get the main circuit with 6 ft ruling which should be fine as it's really only a scenic test track.
I would be interested to see the curved turnouts on Heyside though.
I was talking to my mum and she suggested Penhelig as a suitable setting, I do quite like the idea of something with a natural back drop as well.

 

[Phill Dyson]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

Just a thought, but if you are planning a scenic test track & avoided having a station, you would be able to run anything you want without it looking out of place :scratch:

Phill (who is currently trying to work out how to make a 7 foot long Ilfracombe canopy on a shoe string budget :laugh: )

 

[Jordan]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

... if you are planning a scenic test track & avoided having a station, ...

Good point there; a Station isn't compulsory on a model railway... P.D.Hancock (Craig & Mertonford fame) wrote that he'd realised that, years ago... :scratch:

 

[28ten]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

Just a thought, but if you are planning a scenic test track & avoided having a station, you would be able to run anything you want without it looking out of place :scratch:

Phill (who is currently trying to work out how to make a 7 foot long Ilfracombe canopy on a shoe string budget :laugh: )

That had crossed my mind :scratch: but I need a passing loop and a couple of sidings. the obvious setting would be Teignmouth or Dawlish, cliffs at the back and the sea at the front......

 

[28ten]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

Some doodlings based on a Didcot Newbury and Southampton track layout. Curved turnouts take up a lot of space  :shock:  :shock:
One thing is for sure I feel much happier with the roundy roundy idea 

 

[Ressaldar]

Work in progress - now turning into philosophical mutterings

Hi CME

if Cynric is affected by Belbin in the same way that I was - the roundy roundy might will have square corners

regards

Mike