7mm Yorky D's LT - Interlude

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Yorkshire Dave, 15 September 2018.

  1. 2-Bil

    2-Bil Western Thunderer

    YD et al------ Days of Steam by Neil Davenport has a very sharp colour photo of Number One JOHN LYON in Grey/Red Livery uncoupling at Rickmansworth April 1954.The image below it has an L1 2-6-4t coming onto the same train to drag it to Aylesbury.......Worth a look if you've got the book.......Nice shot too in b&w of LT Class B 0-6-0t saddle tank L53---------- photos mainly late 40s/50s and a useful work of reference---------------------Respects---- Brian W
    Yorkshire Dave likes this.
  2. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    I'll just leave this here..

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  3. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    I've just finished reading George Dow's Great Central Vol2, really interesting stories about how belligerent the MET was when the GCR was attempting to join the two lines together. In the run up to GCR opening the route, Bell the Met's General Manager had made life really difficult for the Pollitt the GCR GM, insisting trains couldn't run until passenger trains had started running. The GCR wanted to start coal trains first to start recouping costs, so gave way to the Met's demands. So on opening day Pollitt sent down a coal train first at 3am in the morning, before the agreed opening time. The train was stopped on the boundary by the Met signalman, the GCR staff went to the box to investigate and found not only the signalman but Bell the Met's GM. The GCR staff were told they were too early and could not pass and would have to reverse wrong line back to Woodford, they said it would be impossible to push a train back that far and requested to run round, which Bell agreed to. However the Met signalman piped up saying that the nearest run round was on Met tracks and if the loco ventures onto Met lines it would mean the line is now open to traffic. Bell agreed with the signalman and the GCR staff had to wait for a second loco to be sent down from Woodford to pick up the train.

    At the start of Vol3, King Edward was travelling back to London from Waddestone Manor on a GCR train. The train arrived 10 minutes late and the King admonished the Marylebone Station master severely. Turns out the Met had signalled a pickup goods train in the way of the royal train. This it seems was the bain of the GCR right up to closure, because the Met had right of way over all GCR traffic. The District Controller's book for the GCR section in the 1950s confirms this treatment was still going on then and is also a fascinating read.

    It does make the modern privatised railway look quite grown up in comparison!!!

    But whatever you think of the modern railway, I've found reading the history of our victorian railways to be entirely fascinating and would recommend it to all.
    Last edited: 9 December 2018
  4. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    When I was travelling regularly in to London for work this independence of the Met came to the fore quite often. It was notable that the Met used to work when all the other underground lines were shut due to strikes. It's really only been integrated over the time since through trains to Aylesbury came to an end.

  5. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    I wonder if this might be due to different unions representing the Met section to the rest of the Underground? By the time the Underground group was merged with the Met (plus LCC + other tramways) in 1933 to create LT, the union representation would have been firmly established, so if different, that might explain it??
  6. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    This is one of the reasons why the GC built the line from Grendon Underwood Junction (GC) to Ashendon Junction (GW). Then used GW/GC metals until Northolt Junction thence to Neasden Junction and Marylebone - in order to avoid the Met. Strange state of affairs since Edward Watkin served both the GC and Met.

    The antagonism still exists today if you speak to my sister who works in Marylebone signal box - They are forever complaining about the Met's speed restrictions between Harrow and Amersham.

    It was for a while but not quite so now. Ever wondered why Chiltern Trains appear to dawdle from Amersham to Harrow and vice versa? Met's speed restrictions, timetabling and the regular Chesham through trains since the shuttle's demise with the A stock. Ideally LUL should have built a 4 car S stock train to run an off-peak Chalfont-Chesham shuttle - as in the A stock days.

    True integration would have the Marylebone trains fast from Harrow to Amersham but this would lead rise to complaint from the Chalfont, Chorleywood and Rickmansworth folk.

    However, some Marylebone - Aylesbury via High Wycombe journeys can get you to Aylesbury more quickly rather than wait for the next Aylesbury via Amersham train. This is an option I have used when I have just missed an Aylesbury via Amersham train.
  7. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    I think you misunderstood me, Dave.....(I've no doubt about the difficulties of running, even today, on London Underground tracks).

    However, my comparison was the Metropolitan Line, as it was then, compared with the Bakerloo and other underground lines - even the Circle. In the event of a strike, if I could get to Wembley Park or, perhaps, Harrow, I'd usually be able to get a train in to the city even when the other underground lines were closed. This actually worked both ways in that the Met guys would come out and the underground would still be running. It may, as Tony suggests, be down to different Unions, or it may have been, as I saw suggested somewhere when I was travelling, that the Met guys were on a different contract and pay scale.

    Even during my time when travelling up to town, which finished in the late '60s, cracks were beginning to show, though, and the Met service had started to reduce along with the rest of the underground during industrial action.

    Last edited: 10 December 2018
  8. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Dave, It seems the Joint GW/GC line somehow didn't quite do the trick of avoiding the Met, according to the District Controller's book, various express services such as the Master Cutler were still routed via the Met and still had trouble getting through. It's a book well worth reading.

    In regards to train speeds today, I noted the old A Stock was originally a 70mph unit later downgraded to 50mph. (wikipedia claims they were the worlds fastest 4th rail train!)

    London Underground A60 and A62 Stock - Wikipedia

    The new S Stock is 62mph, according to wikipedia.

    London Underground S7 and S8 Stock - Wikipedia

    So no wonder the Chiltern Line trains can't get through!!

  9. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Quite correct, Tony. I remember (just) the Master Cutler, usually with a V2, running via Amersham and Harrow, with all the delays that entailed. As for the A stock - initially it showed a top speed improvement over the locos but eventually became very pedestrian. Compare that with the electric locos, built in 1922 and with a top speed of 65mph! And before comments are made about them not using their top speed capabilities a ride through the somewhat dodgy trackwork at Neasden would be flat out and was what can best be described as exhilarating.

    In fairness to the differences between the Met and the LNER, then BR, part of the delay situation was brought about by there being only two tracks between Harrow and Amersham until quadrupling, completed in phases in 1962.

    The Met and Met/GC was and remains a fascinating railway. I've always wanted to build a model of Rickmansworth, complete with loco changes, but it's rather too big for the average home, at least in 7mm, and at my age I'll satisfy myself with building models of the locos I remember.

    Yorkshire Dave likes this.
  10. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    My dad still tells me stories of travelling on the Met from Moor Park (and Sandy Lodge as was) to Harrow after the war to work in the Met Office there during the 50's.
  11. Threadmark: Met 6T
    Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    After studying the Met diagrams again it came to pass the chassis in the kit is incorrect grrrrr.

    Only after I had naively assumed it was correct, and after punching the rivets of course....:headbang: doh!

    The wagon underframes were wooden and fortunately I had some Ambis wagon underframe strapping in the spares box left over when I was making the LCDR and LBSC wagon underframe patterns. So I set to work filing off the rivets and soldered the strapping to the underframes.

    Modified (left) and unmodified (right) underframes.
    Met 6T ballast 05.jpg

    Next came the wagon body dropside hinges and strapping. The hinges (centre left) as supplied were designed to wrap around 0.7mm wire after annealing.... Ha ha - not so with this battleship brass which would be better suited on a Dreadnought - the marine variety not the coaches!

    Rather than struggle with annealing and bending this around brass wire I cut the bottom panel off (centre right). Met 6T ballast 06.jpg

    These were then soldered to the wagon body using a blow torch. Met 6T ballast 07.jpg

    I then tinned some 0.8mm brass wire and soldered this (with a soldering iron) to the hinge plate to form the hinge. Met 6T ballast 08.jpg

    The wire was cut and the process repeated for the remaining hinges Met 6T ballast 09.jpg

    The cut edge was cleaned up and the result is below. I also added some gap filling solder to the buffer beam outer corners and filed them square. Met 6T ballast 10.jpg

    And the weapon of choice is this..... :). The small gas cylinder had run out so I fitted the burner to a standard campingaz can. Met 6T ballast 11.jpg

    Now for some experiments. I tried to see if I could make the hinges by soldering the wire to the hinge plate before installation. As can be seen - not so successful. The bottom item is an end stanchion folded up - somehow methinks I'll be making some new ones. :rolleyes: :) Met 6T ballast 12.jpg

    And now to earn some points. And what do points mean......? PRIZES :).

    The brake etches provided in the kit are supposed to be laminated....? :confused: errrrrr - and without cutting, how is this achieved? Answers please on a postcard to Mrs Trellis of Wales. :)
    Met 6T ballast 13.jpg
  12. Threadmark: Met 6T
    Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    These kits are becoming a slow job with having to make replacement parts albeit from 2.5mm square styrene...

    Today has seen the addition of the dropside catches at each upper corner and the making of four new end stanchions and door bangers.

    The end stanchions and door bangers were mede up from 2.5mm square styrene and filed to shape. The fixing face was roughed up and stuck to the brass with superglue. Holes were drilled in the end stanchions for 0.8mm wire, which was glued, cut back and filed. Holes were also drilled in the door bangers to represent the countersunk bolts.

    In addition the Met buffers were made up and fixed to the bufferbeam.

    Met 6T ballast 14.jpg

    Met 6T ballast 15.jpg

    Next will be the springs and axleguards..... another long :shit: job as the cast axlebox and spring have to be separated and faffed about with in order to make them fit....:mad:
  13. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Well, you learn something new every day...

    I didn't realise London Transport had their own concrete works in Parsons Green producing station furniture, lamp posts and bus stops.

    London Transport Concrete
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  14. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    Splitting cast axleboxes and springs? You may as well convert to S7 :))

  15. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    In the immortal words of Richie Benaud - Another fine delivery..

    Of four books.
    Books 6.jpg

    The text under the Green All Over title is 'The decline of London Tramsport's Country buses'. Both Green All Over and London's District Railway were ordered direct from the publisher as it is cheaper than Amazon....

    A quick flick through and The Metropolitan Line and A History of the Metropolitan Railway vol 2 highlights some photos I've seen in other publications however there are quite a few I haven't seen previously - including the Halton Camp Railway.

    I was aware of a light railway between Wendover and RAF Halton (Halton Camp) but never seen any photos until now. Incidentally this line closed in 1963.

    Now need to hunt down volumes 1 and 3 of A History of the Metropolitan Railway :) .
    Michael Osborne likes this.
  16. Oz7mm

    Oz7mm Western Thunderer


    The painting on the cover of the District Railway book was by our very own Peter Insole. The original is absolutely superb, as everything by Peter always is.

  17. lankytank

    lankytank Western Thunderer


    Abebooks.co.uk has a bookseller in Letchworth with a copy of Vol 3 going for £30.00 - I usually find an enquiry to Nick Tozer, over in Huddersfield, can bring results at a reasonable price, (no connection, just a frequent customer.....)
    Yorkshire Dave likes this.
  18. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Thought I recognised it.

    Although there is no acknowledgement of the front cover artist, or any other acknowledgements for that matter, in the book - unless they are going to be in volume two.
  19. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    I should try to get hold of the Bill Simpson book. As you know, I now live a "relative stones throw" (if you can throw a stone about 5 miles) from Halton and it'll be interesting to know more.

    I, too, was aware of the railway but I've seen no evidence of it. It'd be interesting to trace the route at some time, but I recognise that failure to do so is only due to laziness. I must pick up an old Ordnance Survey map......

    We have a history of doing this. Up to our last house move we were a couple of miles from the Cheddington to Aylesbury branch - indeed, friends had the track bed included in and at the bottom of their garden.

  20. Threadmark: L.94
    Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    An attempt has been made at adapting some Andrew Stadden figures I had previously painted as there are no suitable figures available to represent LT engine crew.

    From my observations the available figures are either pre-group - wrong headgear; a few inter-war - always with jackets and BR - trousers are always with bibs. The photos in the LT books I have show the LT crew with lightweight jackets and trousers or crew with shirts and trousers and it's the latter which has been proving difficult to find a suitable figure for.

    So I removed the paint from the figures and altered them slightly to more late 1960's appearance. The easiest conversion was the figure on the left who had his nose flattened slightly and the figure on the right took a lot longer to prepare and the braces had to be removed. Anyway here are the results.

    Somehow, despite working on a filthy footplate, shirts always seem to have remained clean.
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