ZiderHead's Workbench - Tools and Soldering

ZiderHead

Western Thunderer
Fortunately I have a decent selection of small tools left over from a previous career as a pro-audio techie, which involved plenty of small-scale metalwork and alot of soldering.

I have a 25W Antec. Feels more like 2.5W to me, barely enough heat for even basic electronics IMO.

Luckily I was given this on one of my jobs:

Last Import - 1.jpg

Slight problem though as you can see - someone has chopped the TCP and mains cables off because its a US 110V 60Hz station and they didnt want anyone frying themselves (which is why I got it for nowt). The parts catalogue shows the EU version just has a different transformer and switch, but they are no longer available :( so its bodging time ...

I've ordered a suitable switch and a couple of tips from RS, but the transformer has been a real pain to source, until I noticed Maplin have similar spec ones for £15 :thumbs: I'm praying the mounting holes are the same, and that the iron actually works - a decent iron is the price of a loco kit after all.

Gravity riveter and some other bits and pieces are on the way from Eileen's, and this turned up yesterday:

Last Import - 3.jpg

I've only ever used 60/40 Multicore solder before (which I'm going to try to use as much as possible) but understand I'll need 70 and 145 too, and flux. Having followed the builds on www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk, I thought "I'll have what they're having!" and duly ordered their £12 kit above - seems a pretty good deal and people apparently like their flux.


I've seen it suggested that its good to build on a thick piece of float glass to keep everything level - would you guys and gals recommend that?


Also wondering about preparing the brass etches. I've noticed some people rub down the etches before building, most dont seem to. Any thoughts on that?


Jon
 

Colin M

Western Thunderer
Sounds like you are well prepared!

Yes to the glass.

I'm certainly no expert, but I don't see much point in polishing brass a long way in advance. It will tarnish slightly during the build time, (...especially at the speed I build things! :eek:) . I clean each joint just before I make it, remove remaining flux as I go, and clean the whole thing again at the end prior to painting.

Colin.
 

Locomodels

Western Thunderer
Fortunately I have a decent selection of small tools left over from a previous career as a pro-audio techie, which involved plenty of small-scale metalwork and alot of soldering.

I have a 25W Antec. Feels more like 2.5W to me, barely enough heat for even basic electronics IMO.

Luckily I was given this on one of my jobs:

View attachment 19283

Slight problem though as you can see - someone has chopped the TCP and mains cables off because its a US 110V 60Hz station and they didnt want anyone frying themselves (which is why I got it for nowt). The parts catalogue shows the EU version just has a different transformer and switch, but they are no longer available :( so its bodging time ...

I've ordered a suitable switch and a couple of tips from RS, but the transformer has been a real pain to source, until I noticed Maplin have similar spec ones for £15 :thumbs: I'm praying the mounting holes are the same, and that the iron actually works - a decent iron is the price of a loco kit after all.

Gravity riveter and some other bits and pieces are on the way from Eileen's, and this turned up yesterday:

View attachment 19284

I've only ever used 60/40 Multicore solder before (which I'm going to try to use as much as possible) but understand I'll need 70 and 145 too, and flux. Having followed the builds on www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk, I thought "I'll have what they're having!" and duly ordered their £12 kit above - seems a pretty good deal and people apparently like their flux.


I've seen it suggested that its good to build on a thick piece of float glass to keep everything level - would you guys and gals recommend that?


Also wondering about preparing the brass etches. I've noticed some people rub down the etches before building, most dont seem to. Any thoughts on that?


Jon







The flux is really good, it is all that I use now, having been weaned off Bakers Fluid, Carrs Green Label and other such nasty corrosive fluxes. However you will not need the resin cored solder at all.

As to the glass, yes it is a good idea and I always have a piece on the bench to check things are all level.

As you say many people do not bother to file the cusp down on etches. My rule is to file them down if they show and if the edge is needed as a datum for soldering other items to. Like the top of the frames where the footplate fits. Also I always clean the surface if it is tarnished. I also use the glass for this, putting a sheet of fine wet-or-dry emery paper on it and lightly rubbing the etched part on it.

Hope that my views help a bit, but experience is the best way to learn.

Good luck with your building, you will never be short of advice from this lot. WT'ers are really great guys and gals, always willing to help.
 

ZiderHead

Western Thunderer
thanks for the advice gents, keep it coming I'm a total rookie when it comes to brass kits :thumbs:

What is in the poly bag at the bottom right hand corner?

regards, Barking

lace pins, I figured they might be useful for pinning tiny parts to some softwood - for laminating instanter links, that kind of thing.
 

Railwaymaniac

Western Thunderer
Advice. Hah!

Firstly, I would advise against using the 60/40 solder as it melts at 185degrees (188 degrees?) - the 145 stuff is much easier to use as you only need to raise the temp of the joint to 145 degrees. Getting the extra 40 to 50 degrees of heat into a joint can be a killer if you are using the pre-fluxed 185 degree stuff. Also, if you carry the solder to the joint on the iron the flux burns out and you need to have the extra flux on the joint anyway.

Secondly, there's never anything wrong with buying tools. They are always worth the outlay. And on the same subject, always buy the good one - it's worth it in the long run. (I'm thinking files, for example. the Swiss ones last for years, the less expensive Chinese ones go blunt very quickly)

And finally, what kit are you going to start with? Your best plan here is to go visit Connoisseur Models and get one of their Skill Builder kits - you stand a good chance of actually finishing it!. Start small, and build up to that A3 or Merchant Navy in a few years from now.

Oh, and keep asking the noddy questions. You need to ask the questions and folks don't mind answering, not until you've asked the same question three times, anyway!!!

Ian
 

Ian G

Western Thunderer
Looking at your pic reminds me to get more of that flux, good for all the soldering even white metal, lace pins are a good reserve for fine brass wire but drawing pins are less likely to be soldered to your build.
Little wooden pegs from the art and craft shop are good for clamps.

Ian G
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
I have to echo some of what's been said - ditch the multicore 60/40 (arguably it's even a bit 'iffy' for electronics) and buy some wooden clothes pegs to hold things together while soldering.

It's worth making friends with the 'sites of jewellery suppliers. I use CooksonGold a bit for their tools; as an example their 'iron binding wire' is also useful stuff for holding irregular items while soldering as it won't take solder.

Other than that it's a case of buying a kit and pitching in... ;)

Steph
 

ZiderHead

Western Thunderer
the soldering technique is going to be interesting to learn. For electronics I was taught: tin both pieces to be joined and the iron, heat the work not the solder, use the solder to flash between the iron and the pieces, and never carry solder on the iron. but this was using multicore and no extra flux. I have many 100s of hours using 188deg 60/40 so I figured it would be a good place to start as long as the brass is thick enough so it doesnt warp. I may have to pick up a small brass sheet to practice on ...

I did have my eye on a couple of the Connoissuer kits but an MMP Dogfish kit appeared on another forum for £20 so I grabbed it! Plenty to practice on there methinks :D


edit: wooden clothes pegs - brilliant, would never have thought of that :thumbs: can you get mini ones like they make in plastic too?
 

Locomodels

Western Thunderer
OK Jon,

This is where the advice gets interesting, if not confusing.

In most things I agree with Ian, good tools are always a great investment, especially files. However I always use 188 degree solder, almost to the exclusion of all other solders, except solder cream which is wonderful. Also I always apply the flux to the joint, as that is the area you want to keep oxide free.

Yes do keep asking the questions, even though you might get several different answers. Then you can try all the alternatives, and come up with what works best for you.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
OK Jon,

This is where the advice gets interesting, if not confusing.

...I always use 188 degree solder, almost to the exclusion of all other solders...

Then you can try all the alternatives, and come up with what works best for you.

Paul,

Agree with that - 188(ish) does 'wet' better than 145; it's a metalurgical issue in the use of eutectic solder (note; not 60/40, which although melting at similar temperatures is non-eutectic).

Steph
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
... wooden clothes pegs - brilliant, would never have thought of that ...
The good thing about wooden pegs is that you can cut the peg to fit the job... start by squaring up the end so that the "pinch" point is closer to the tip of the peg, useful when holding something which has 3mm or less to hold. Similarly, you can cut the business end of the peg to reduce the width for those tight spots...

regards, Graham
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Agree with that - 188(ish) does 'wet' better than 145; it's a metalurgical issue in the use of eutectic solder (note; not 60/40, which although melting at similar temperatures is non-eutectic).
Prompted by the above... I pondered as to why 60/40 was not an eutectic alloy... still do not know, however this page makes interesting reading for anyone pondering the difference between eutetic alloys and non-eutectic alloys. We can all read that page whilst waiting for Prof Steph to explain why 60/40 is not an eutectic alloy.

regards, Prof. Barking
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Prompted by the above... I pondered as to why 60/40 was not an eutectic alloy... still do not know, however this page makes interesting reading for anyone pondering the difference between eutetic alloys and non-eutectic alloys. We cna all read that page whilst waiting for Prof Steph to explain why 60/40 is not an eutectic alloy.

regards, Prof. Barking

Blimey, Graham, now you're asking - I went 'lead free' about ten years ago as regards solder technology...

Wikipedia offers a nice summary though, including one of the two main reasons 60/40 is rubbish for electrical work (the other being ageing effects):
"For certain proportions an alloy becomes eutectic and melts at a single temperature; non-eutectic alloys have markedly different solidus and liquidus temperature, and within that range they exist as a paste of solid particles in a melt of the lower-melting phase. In electrical work, if the joint is disturbed in the pasty state before it has solidified totally, a poor electrical connection may result; use of eutectic solder reduces this problem. The pasty state of a non-eutectic solder can be exploited in plumbing as it allows molding of the solder during cooling, e.g. for ensuring watertight joint of pipes, resulting in a so-called 'wiped joint'."

The eutectic/non-eutectic nature is associated with the proportions of tin/lead in the mix, as well as other additives (bismuth, molybdenum, copper, etc). It did cause some real issues when we all went lead-free as there were only a few (proprietary) alloys that were eutectic and flowed at sensible working temperatures.

I can hear whimpering at this point, so I guess that's enough for now and I'd better stop before anyone does themselves a mischief... :confused:

Steph
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
All I can say on solder is that I largely follow the example of the best modeller I know,and use 60/40 tin/lead (non-cored) and a strage red-coloured paste flux he picked when he worked for a living. I usually use 9% phosphoric acid, or Laco paste. He uses nothing else, even on whitemetal (! - and nothing has fallen apart in over 100 exhibitions) but I have 70 degree for that, and 145 for anything requiring a laminate/overlay. After a "negative learning experience" with 145, I won't use it for a butt-joint (why I would be joining people's backsides is anyone's guess) but using all these different solders works well for most, so make your own choice - it can be as simple or as complicated as you wish.

The important thing is physical cleanliness (abrasion - purple Scothchbrite is great for this, but it needs to be the purple stuff), chemical cleanliness (flux) and plenty of heat, but you knew that already.

As with everything, a developed technique using what is available can be just as effective as using everything under the sun.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
All I can say on solder is that I largely follow the example of the best modeller I know,and use 60/40 tin/lead (non-cored) and a strage red-coloured paste flux he picked when he worked for a living. I usually use 9% phosphoric acid, or Laco paste. He uses nothing else, even on whitemetal (! - and nothing has fallen apart in over 100 exhibitions)

I have to confess that I am also a 60/40 tin/lead user for almost everything, simply because it's what I've used for more years than I care to remember and I know how to get on with it. :) I use Templer's Mild Telux paste flux now and it works well with no funny oxidising after effects. The only time I use different solders is for paste or paint uses - I've got a bottle of Carrs 188 paint, and I used to have a syringe of the expensive paste, until it hardened up and is unuseable. I'll maybe take out a bank loan and get a new syringe. :)

Jim
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
I did have my eye on a couple of the Connoissuer kits but an MMP Dogfish kit appeared on another forum for £20 so I grabbed it! Plenty to practice on there methinks :D

Hi Jon,

I agree with most of what has been said by others and you really do need to work out what works best for you. For example I have 298, 227, 188, 145, 100 70 degree solders that I use at various points on a build (not all gets used on all builds) and I use 188 and 145 the most.

The one thing that I will say from bitter experience (having just finished one, two and a half years later:( ) is no matter how cheap it was, don't start on the MMP kit as your first kit!

Either buy one of the Lochgorm vans like SteveO did or get one of Jim MGeowns (Connoisseur) skill builder kits. Then when you do get to the MMP kit you will really enjoy it and you will have a build to be proud of not one that you wish you hadn't done this that or the other with......

This is no reflection at all on David's kits, they are a joy to build once you have the skills and confidence to make them up as they were intended.
 

Railwaymaniac

Western Thunderer
Jon;

Other food for thought here is :- go join a local railway club. Friendship, similar interests *and* folks who could show you how to build your kit(s). Wonderful. It might even involve beer tasting!

And +1 :thumbs: as to Rob's comments. Excellent as the MMP kits are :bowdown: they require skills, confidence and tenacity - you should start with something that you can complete in a reasonable time-frame. Something less daunting.

Finally, what you should take away from reading all this froth is something that you already know. Soldering requires solder (to make the joint), heat (to melt the solder) and flux (to clean the joint so that the solder will flow).
After that it's down to you as to exactly how you supply the required components. There may well be no 'right' or 'wrong' choices in any particular situation. After that, it's just down to practice and how willing you are to junk (or at least permanently side-line) your mistakes.

Looking down the road ahead, it is a thing called 'scratchbuilding' that comes out of those lost/missing/broken bits - the art of fabricating parts for your models that you don't otherwise have to hand. Scratchbuilding happens, but only with practice and confidence. You build these over time by completing other models that you start building.

Go for it!

Ian
 
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