7mm - P7 From Southwark Bridge Models

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
No, P7 is not an upstart to take precedence over S7.... and if it was, then we would need a Q7 just to keep WT in order.

P7 here is the GWR diagram reference for a ballast hopper wagon. There surely ought to be at least a couple down in Artillery Lane because the local GWR Superintendent has decided that as and when this segment does get built then the ballast is going to be the real McCoy.... a lovely pink granite rather than that 'orrible ash used by lesser railways down in the East End of the City. And if he gets his way then those wagons will arrive in style - behind one of the finest Consolidations ever built (actually, probably doing a bit of moonlighting as 2827 will be moving the regulation dozen or so "fulls" on our future GW&GC Jt line).

I have started construction of one of these models - who else has done one? Any comments? suggestions? dodges?

regards, Graham
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
You're kidding; cinders was legit GW ballast in 1888, and spare a thought for the poor old GG Class 1HP shunter stumbling gaskin over coronet in that lumpy pink stuff.
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
Have you asked Ivan if he used any other sources apart from Touret when designing the kit? He's a very amenable chap.

There's a lot of rivets on those wagons!
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
There's a lot of rivets on those wagons!

Tell me, I got the first solebar wrong and did too much. The instructions include reference to different plan and isometric illustrations (great) and do not make mention of a small sketch which identifies the rivets to be embossed for the various arrangements of brake gear (bad)...... and the illustration which does have the important annotations as to V-hanger locations is an English projection (which seems a tad obscure when the reason for the sketch is to identify the half-etch rivets on the reverse face of the solebar - real bad).

I agree that Ivan is helpful.... my first etch had several places where the process had not etched through and so there were parts in glorious half-etch held together with an expanse of half-etch platework. Swiftly dealt with after a telecon with Ivan.

regards, Graham
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Dave, (@daifly), this shelf Queen has been resurrected given the current circumstances of minimal opportunities for visiting and tea-drinking. Work on the model stopped for so many reasons, some reflecting the complexity of the kit and some a consequence of other modelling activities (covered in other WT topics), for example:-

1/ I "lost" the instructions, Dave Hammersley provided a new set of instructions;

2/ The instructions for building the DC3 brake gear ought to have a "public health warning", a helpful photograph of the underneath of an assembled P7 has shone a light on the matter;

3/ Work on Scruft's Junction for the Scaleseven Autumn Show took most of the spring and summer of that year;

4/ Moving (old) Top Shed, building / fitting out of New Top Shed, re-building the original shed (now christened Lower Bank) have taken most of my modelling time between May 2019 and now.

The "hopper" is being done at the moment and a photo shall be posted soon to either "The Old Man's Workbench" or "What is on your workbench 2020?".

regards, Graham
 
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AJC

Western Thunderer
Hi Graham,

I'll be interested to see how you get on. It's got to be easier in 7mm. I am not wholly taken with some of the design features, though the hopper seems to be ok with helpful jigs there's an awful lot of bits where some thinking and fold-up design would make the chassis easier in particular. The sheer variety of brakegear doesn't help on the design front, but I can understand what Ivan was trying to achieve.

Adam

PS - I've abandoned embossing the etched rivets, I'll be popping some Archer's transfers on after painting...
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
I'll be interested to see how you get on.

Progress is here .

I am not wholly taken with some of the design features, though the hopper seems to be ok with helpful jigs there's an awful lot of bits where some thinking and fold-up design would make the chassis easier in particular. The sheer variety of brakegear doesn't help on the design front, but I can understand what Ivan was trying to achieve.

PS - I've abandoned embossing the etched rivets, I'll be popping some Archer's transfers on after painting...

So many points in such a small number of words.... where to start? Work on the underframe proceeds in parallel with work on the hopper so that proress can be made even though there are temporary hiccups. Thoughts so far:-

* I am impressed that anyone is able to contemplate the 4mm kit given the small size and large number of pieces, the basic underframe (see this post) has 32 pieces so far and that is without any brake gear;

* the provision of a concordance map to identify parts of the etch is really useful although there are etch pieces which are marked 'X' on the etch layout for which there is no corresponding description and no mention in the instructions;

* fitting of axleguards relies on alignment to a witness line... a positive location is beneficial, still not sure that the axles are parallel;

* progress on brake gear - DC3 for the circa 1910 period - is on hold as the brackets for the hand brake shaft are "identical" rather than "handed" and we shall have to arrange for some suitable parts to be etched;

* spring stops and brackets for hopper operating levers are half etch pieces to be folded into a top-hat section, attempts to achieve these parts have not been successful in that consistency of shape is lacking. Chris Brown (@ChrisBr) has come to the rescue by providing some suitable etch parts with fold lines so underframe progress shall resume soon.

A lack of appropriate photos (usual GWR wagon books are on Spike's folding table along with MRJ 257 and a RCTS image of a P7 at Yeovil) is making the detailing of the body somewhat hit and miss. There is great variability in handrail... rivet... panel joins and the kit seems to offer every possibility - sorting out those details has been a nightmare and I shall have to fill some of the panel lines on the outside of the hopper extension for our models.


As to the rivets of the extension panels, those near to the centre of the side are formed reasonably well whilst those to the outer edge are just pimples - seems that the half etch holes are not wide enough for our rivet punch. I shall be pleased to learn how you use, successfully, the Archer's products.


Never mind the cries of woe, the kit is likely to produce a decent model of a P7 ballast hopper circa 1910; Peter says that anymore than two is dependent upon serious bribery.

regards, Graham
 
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AJC

Western Thunderer
Thanks, Graham. The basic chassis in 4mm isn't too bad (more of a fiddle that I'd like, but bearable). The brakegear is... challenging, and requires a lot of care and some judicious reinforcement - all that half etching is not really sustainable in the smaller scale. I suspect the Rumney Models P22 is much, much better but I haven't have the pleasure of one of those yet.

Adam
 
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