4mm An EM Workbench: whitemetal double act

GWR P7 (Southwark Bridge Models kit)

AJC

Western Thunderer
An important moment, the wagon is almost complete and treated to a coat of etch primer. I have to make and add some axle keeps (they're tricky shape which I know I can make easily in plastic but would be a pain in brass) and add a few transfer rivets before a second coat of (normal) primer and top coat of all over black. The wheels still go round!

The white blotch is exposed Milliput - the etched panel lines were more prominent than I'd like.

P7_008.jpg

Adam
 
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GWR P7 (Southwark Bridge Models kit)

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
I am not often moved to comment on a photo of a model after clicking the "like" button, I shall make an exception in this case because I appreciate that this kit is difficult and complex to build as a consequence of the prototype and kit design - well done Adam (especially as my appreciation of the kit of parts relates to the 7mm version and you have built the 4mm kit).

regards, Graham
 
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GWR P7 (Southwark Bridge Models kit)

AJC

Western Thunderer
Thank you, Graham. It's a challenging kit of a difficult prototype and I'm pleased that what is left to do are things that I am comfortable with: minor details and painting. It was a Christmas present from my in-laws last year and hopefully I'll have that phase done by Christmas this year which would be neat. I have certainly had their money's worth.

I have plans for another vintage ballast hopper but that should be much more straightforward, but for that you'll have to wait and see.

Adam
 
SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

AJC

Western Thunderer
And now for something completely different. In 1911, the SE&CR acquired its first ballast hoppers supplementing its traditional flat bottomed, low-sided opens which, nonetheless, lasted in some numbers into the 1960s. These were curious things with three chutes to unload the ballast (just the one bottom door on the GWR P7) designed to be operated from track level and rightly reckoned to be sub-optimal from the user's point of view especially when the wagons were - as designed - unloaded in motion. In 1915 they added another train's worth of similar hoppers of 21T capacity with the operating wheels moved upward and a platform provided for the operator. Construction was by the Leeds Forge Co., and they seem to have been at least partially responsible for the design since they some very similar vehicles to others until their closure in 1929.* This sensible and much-safer set of features was later adopted by the SR on their later bogie hoppers but, through Leeds Forge's successor, Cammell Laird (later Met Camm), more very similar 4-wheeled vehicles were built for the LMS and LNER and by BR as the Catfish and Dogfish . Characteristic Swindon conservatism saw them get Met Camm to build their P22 design when the same company had a superior vehicle available for thirty-five years...

SECR_hopper_003.jpg
Image from Bixley, et al, An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons vol. 3 and used here for illustrative purposes.

Hornby, of course, have offered a moulded plastic version of the Trout and since examples of the second batch of SE&CR hoppers lasted into the '60s and there are pictures at Meldon which is the right end of the SR for me how could I resist? Getting hold of one has proved a bit tricky but a kind donation from Mike Whitchurch has solved that and here we are. So apart from the lovely pressed steel side door the main difference is the capacity and the consequent height of the hopper, roughly 6" lower on these early relatives. From a modelling point of view the difficult bit is the door but I have a plan for that.

SECR_hopper_001.jpg

Here's the donor - sadly the nicely-moulded axlebox lettering has to go and the chutes are 2mm shorter than they should be (trainset wheels, but who can really tell), as do the buffers and bendy footsteps. Vacuum brakes and their associated fittings are to be added. About an hour's drastic surgery later...

SECR_hopper_002.jpg

... and that's where we are. No turning back.

Adam



*Vehicles to a very similar layout were supplied to London Transport by Glos C&W in the late '30s (The SVR and various other preservation outfits have these in preservation - London Transport ‘Herring’ Ballast Hopper Wagons - SVR Wiki - though the account of the design history is... eccentric/baloney/with a major chronological contradiction at its heart).
 
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SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
*Vehicles to a very similar layout were supplied to London Transport by Glos C&W in the late '30s (The SVR and various other preservation outfits have these in preservation - London Transport ‘Herring’ Ballast Hopper Wagons - SVR Wiki - though the account of the design history is... eccentric/baloney/with a major chronological contradiction at its heart).

Thier 'history' made me laugh though :) - just reveals the level of their non-GW research - new works to Potters Bar!

Furthermore, my LT books do not refer to a BR a telegraphic code as they refused to let them run on their metals due to their propensity to derail.

In my 4mm days I used the Heljan dogfish as a starting point for my LT HW. In effect taking a slice out of the botton half of the hopper and turning it around by 180 degrees. LT used prefixes followed by the vehicle number for their internal user stock i.e. A = Ash wagon, PH = Power house (coal) wagon, SL = Slurry wagon, HW = Hopper wagon, B = Brake van, BW = Ballast wagon, etc.

LT Hop Dogfish & LT hopper.jpg

And the same approach for the 7mm version. LT Hop 02.jpg
 
SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

AJC

Western Thunderer
You're right, I shouldn't be too mean about the 'history', duff though it obviously is: the SVR have done more than almost anyone to maintain a fleet of historic wagon and carriage stock in good condition in a preservation context. It does ignore the input of suppliers in design work, however (most obvious in the English Electric 350HP design).

I like the Dogfish conversions very much, but I would, wouldn't I? The real things are fun, too. A nice example of a client going to a favoured manufacturer - clutching an ad' from Met Camm no doubt - and saying 'could we have something like that to fit our tunnels?'.

Adam
 
SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

AJC

Western Thunderer
Back to the job in hand, making complicated pressed steel doors the hard way from layers of plastic.

These are 20 thou' hand cut and with one spare (one's bound to be a bit naff). Here we are from the front - quite tidy but lacking detail - and from the back (less so):

SECR_hopper_004.jpg

SECR_hopper_005.jpg

The back of the pressings need more relief and obviously some middles. Then time for a waft of primer to see whether it's worth carrying on. It's promising at this stage, but if I wanted more than one, 3D printing is the way to go.

Adam
 
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SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

AJC

Western Thunderer
A quick update. The doors are primed and fitted and re-filled (the first pass wasn't bad, but better is better). I think it's worth carrying on so the next stop is a coat of grey primer and some transfer rivets before sorting out the door catches and other detail. The chassis hasn't been untouched, but new buffers and couplings aren't as exciting as all that...

SECR_hopper_007.jpg

The interior (more rivets needed along the top edge) and the exterior:

SECR_hopper_008.jpg

Adam
 
BR Single Bolster

AJC

Western Thunderer
Something a bit more straightforward, a Christmas quickie. This is a BR single bolster, created from some of the contents of the spares box and some buffers ordered in error. A cut down Parkside chassis (just 15' 6" over headstocks) and some plastic sheet. The only other bought-in bits will be the bolster posts (Masokits), wheels, bearings and couplings. Yes, the solebars should be 10" rather than 9" but that's only 0.3mm out and I can live with that.*

Bolster_single_001.jpg

Bolster_single_002.jpg

Adam


*Dave Bradwell does what will surely be a very nice etched kit for these but time, money...
 
SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
The doors are primed and fitted and re-filled (the first pass wasn't bad, but better is better). I think it's worth carrying on so the next stop is a coat of grey primer and some transfer rivets before sorting out the door catches and other detail.

I think the doors look the part. Being scratchbuilt they have the 'in service' look about them.
 
SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

AJC

Western Thunderer
Having finished titivating the hopper, I've made some tweaks to the chassis. The first one was to very carefully remove the brakeshoe mouldings with the tip of a scalpel. I then drilled out the hanger and stuck a bit of 0.45mm wire into the hole prior to drilling some new fixing holes in the chassis frame. Obviously as I work in EM this was to get them to line up with the wheels, but I'd have done this if it as staying in 00 so as to bring the shoes closer to the treads. Helpfully @hrmspaul has some useful detail pictures of the BR Trout which was more or less the same so I was able to base the brake yokes (Hornby have helpfully moulded holes in the back of the brake shoes) on those shown here: BR Trout ballast hopper ZFO (LNER type).

The distinctive safety loops will go on later, but the next critical bits were the hopper supports and here the drawing in SR Wagons vol. 3 were invaluable, but apart from the lightening holes are a fairly simple bit of plastic cutting. I've added a few other solebar details and there's a few more to go, but just roughly mocked up, I think we're going in the right direction:

SECR_hopper_010.jpg

Adam
 
SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

AJC

Western Thunderer
A little bit further - I've replaced the hopper supports at the outer end and the handrail stanchions to match. The vac' cylinder comes from an old Dapol Presflo that was started just before the Bachmann one turned up and needs plumbing in. The latter is no simple job as the pipe is in view above the solebar all the way along the wagon mostly without obvious means of support...


SECR_hopper_011.jpg

Adam
 
Yeovil MRG

AJC

Western Thunderer
The sun is shining today so on my way back from a quick jaunt on the bike I picked up MRJ and, on a whim, the Railway Modeller - not my usual choice of light reading, but the shot of Love Lane on the cover lured me in and the mention of Allan Howles’ Kingsferry sealed the deal.

D2AB27CE-4E8F-4A35-A2FA-3AB3172C4D21.jpeg

Yes, it's a GWR branch line terminus all 00 and mostly RTR-based and it’s something you could have seen 1000 times before. I know it through my contact with Yeovil Model Railway Group and some shots dad sent me over lockdown. The scale, setting and colouring, together with the nicely weathered stock are first class, however. The RM shots are nice, but Allan’s own are rather better, I think, and feature in the ‘news’ section of the club website: November 2020. It also has it's own pages on the site: Kingsferry – GWR – 4mm 00 finescale. A better class of GWR BLT, I think.

Adam
 
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AJC

Western Thunderer
And I thought it would be Kingsferry over the Swale!

Well - with my other hat on - the king had *a lot* of ferries (or the rights to them, anyway). As Allan says, it's basically a straightened out Kingsbridge (lots of those, too). Some day I'll hopefully get to see it in the flesh.

Adam
 
SECR Hopper/Hornby Trout Conversion

AJC

Western Thunderer
Late last night I broke the back of perhaps the last really difficult job on my Trout conversion, running the vac' pipe round the fixtures. The pipe is formed of several bits of 0.7mm brass wire, with fine electrical wire and bits of shim for detail and, in the case of the vac' cylinder end, to represent a join clearly visible of the real thing. This is much, much easier with a decent drawing as supplied in Southern Wagons volume 3; so often we have to guess the route the pipe took!

SECR_hopper_013.jpg

I love how the pipe disappears under the headstock before popping up and heading off behind the side stanchions...

SECR_hopper_014.jpg

... and then turns left back towards the centre line and, through bends and elbows, is bracketed in place. Yes, the dummy for the bag really was supported like that (I cut the pipe overlong and then slotted the end with a fine blade in a piercing saw which gives an overlong bit of 0.3mm wire something to hold onto until the solder does its job.

The next job is to knock up a replacement set of steps before thinking about how I'm going to lengthen the chutes underneath the thing.

Adam
 
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