2mm Let's build a Layout - The Midland somewhere in the Peak District, 1915-ish.

[WM183]

Hello!!

My order of track and track bits has arrived, as well as the Track book. I am very happy to have it, and would definitely recommend anyone dipping toes into 2mm to get the book. It shows not only all there is to know about the physical plant, but also step by step guides about using the materials and tools the Association sells!

I'm about to build a test board with a pair of turnouts and a runaround, just to... build two turnouts and a runaround. I never feel like I've even started to understand a thing till I've done it a couple times.

If this goes well, I hope to start plonking foam and track onto my Ikea Lack shelf soon???

Is... is this progress??

 

[WM183]

I ordered a collet chuck and a dividing head.

I ordered backplates for the collet chuck too, per the instructions on ARC euro trade's site.

The collet chuck has 3 holes.

The backplate has 4.

Le sigh.

 

[simond]

Ask them what they’re going to do about it. I’ll be interested by their reply.

 

[WM183]

Ask them what they’re going to do about it. I’ll be interested by their reply.

They replied "Oh its no problem just drill more holes" and informed me that both the unimat type backplate and the small collet chuck will be phased out. It WAS marked as a backplate for a 4 jaw chuck, but it was also the backplate linked as "the backplate" from the collet chuck listing. I can make it work but god is "Just drill more holes bruh" an infuriating response.

I bought a Japanese chisel from Fine Tools in Germany. The ferrule broke. They apologized, immediately shipped me a new chisel, and told me to keep the old one. They concluded by apologizing again.

One of these businesses has a customer for life. One does not. Can you guess which is which?

 

[JimG]

They replied "Oh its no problem just drill more holes" and informed me that both the unimat type backplate and the small collet chuck will be phased out. It WAS marked as a backplate for a 4 jaw chuck, but it was also the backplate linked as "the backplate" from the collet chuck listing. I can make it work but god is "Just drill more holes bruh" an infuriating response.

I bought a Japanese chisel from Fine Tools in Germany. The ferrule broke. They apologized, immediately shipped me a new chisel, and told me to keep the old one. They concluded by apologizing again.

One of these businesses has a customer for life. One does not. Can you guess which is which?

Arc Euro have a very good reputation in the model engineering fraternity and they are used to dealing with model engineers, for whom, usually, drilling a couple of holes is no great problem - getting a backplate with the correct thread and register is the important part.

Jim.

 

[simond]

drilling a couple of holes is no great problem

if you have the kit/will/time to do it.

Seems like a pretty poor response to me, from a supplier that has either mis-described, or mis-shipped goods.

sending a new (correct!) backplate might be a good response?

 

[WM183]

if you have the kit/will/time to do it.

Seems like a pretty poor response to me, from a supplier that has either mis-described, or mis-shipped goods.

sending a new (correct!) backplate might be a good response?

They informed me that they no longer make the correct backplate. I don't want to make tons of tooling. I just want to chuck little pieces of brass into the collet so I can make chimneys and domes. Sigh.

I can probably manage but god is this irritating. I just want to *buy a chuck that fits my lathe* I do not have the money nor room to fit a "real" lathe that uses tapered mounting systems.

 

[JimG]

if you have the kit/will/time to do it.

Seems like a pretty poor response to me, from a supplier that has either mis-described, or mis-shipped goods.

sending a new (correct!) backplate might be a good response?

Simon,

I've just double checked and if I want a backplate for my Myford lathe, the ones available have the spindle register and thread machined and they are blank - i.e. no screw holes. You have to finish off the backplate - the face and the register for the chuck and also drill the holes for screws to secure the chuck. That's pretty normal and in fact is preferred since the backplate should be finished off on the spindle of the lathe it is to be used on.

If you require Arc Euro to supply the correct backplate, you might find that they would supply a blank one with no screw holes, since that is the norm.

Jim.

 

[simond]

Hi Jim,

yes, I did the same with my own larger lathe many moons ago.

I think the issue here is that the customer expected (apparently, had no reason not to expect) to purchase two parts that fitted together, rather than one finished part, and one that required modification, and the seller‘s expectation was “it’s close enough”, and it is that aspect that causes me to prickle.

I guess there’s a “model engineer’s” mindset which would say “ah, all I have to do is mark out and drill a couple of holes to make these tools work together” because there’s a suitably-equipped workshop in which to do it, and there’s a modeller’s mindset, which expects not to need to do it because it isn’t a job that can be done on the modelling tray on the dining room table.

as long as it’s clear what you’re getting, there’s no angst, but in this case, I guess it wasn’t, and my contention is that the supplier is responsible to make that reasonably clear. E.g. “Will require 2 x dia 5 mounting holes to be drilled”

atb
Simon

 

[JimG]

Simon,

There actually is an item which is ready to go and would suit a 14mm x 1mm spindle - it's the Cowells "COLLET ADAPTOR FOR 90ME AND 90E BASIC" Part R17 which takes ER16 collets. It costs £110, a price which reflects that someone has done the hard part and fitted an adaptor to a backplate, compared to about £40 for the holder and unmachined backplate from Arc Euro.

For interest, here's a thread from the Model Engine Makers forum about ER16 on a Cowells.

Fitting ER16 Collet Chuck to Cowells Lathe

Fitting ER16 Collet Chuck to Cowells Lathe

www.modelenginemaker.com

The ER collet set from Cowells to go with the holder is expensive - £210 for ten - but you could probably source cheaper ones from elsewhere with the proviso that they would probably have a lower runout spec.

Jim.

 

[WM183]

Hi Jim,

yes, I did the same with my own larger lathe many moons ago.

I think the issue here is that the customer expected (apparently, had no reason not to expect) to purchase two parts that fitted together, rather than one finished part, and one that required modification, and the seller‘s expectation was “it’s close enough”, and it is that aspect that causes me to prickle.

I guess there’s a “model engineer’s” mindset which would say “ah, all I have to do is mark out and drill a couple of holes to make these tools work together” because there’s a suitably-equipped workshop in which to do it, and there’s a modeller’s mindset, which expects not to need to do it because it isn’t a job that can be done on the modelling tray on the dining room table.

as long as it’s clear what you’re getting, there’s no angst, but in this case, I guess it wasn’t, and my contention is that the supplier is responsible to make that reasonably clear. E.g. “Will require 2 x dia 5 mounting holes to be drilled”

atb
Simon

Three holes, actually. The spacing of the 4 holes on the backplate is a smaller diameter than the ones in the collet chuck. I guess if I turn the raised bit of the backplate to perfectly register with the chuck, then make dimples with a 5mm drill using the collet chuck's existing holes as a guide, I can't go terribly wrong? I can clamp it to a surface plate on the tailstock and use that to drill with the bit in the lathe, and that should be perfectly normal to the surface of the plate, right?

 

[Rob R]

That sounds about right. I would just drill one hole first and bolt it up so it doesn't move and then drill the other two.
Rob

 

[JimG]

I guess if I turn the raised bit of the backplate to perfectly register with the chuck, then make dimples with a 5mm drill using the collet chuck's existing holes as a guide, I can't go terribly wrong?

That's how I marked the holes centres on my backplate on the Myford. In fact you can make the screws holes slightly oversize - say 5.1mm diameter - to allow for any slight errors in marking out.

When I had bolted my collet holder to the backplate I found that there was a small amount of runout on the collet taper when I put a dial gauge on it. So I took the holder off and machined the register down by a thou (2 thou off the diameter) then remounted the holder, and screwed the screws up not quite fully tight, then trued the holder up by using the dial gauge and tapping the holder with a small hammer until I got the runout to as close to zero as I could, then I nipped the screws up fully tight - and checked again!! Sometimes the tightening up moved things. But I got there in the end.

Jim.