The Norwich & Mucklemouth Railway - Eastern Eccentricity in EM

[Herb Garden]

Yesterday was one of those days... I was just setting down at the workbench for a regular 8pm video call with @Liver & Fry and then the other (work) phone started buzzing. Machine failure, production stop, can you come in? Ah the delights of being on call. Twas fixed by 10 this morning but goodness that's not what I planned!


So the only progress is swapping the large motor on the rustons gearbox for a smaller one.

 

[Herb Garden]

I got my first etched kit on my 18th birthday. Needless to say that as I superglued it together (I wasn't allowed a soldering iron) I made a colossal pigs ear of it. During my university years I attempted 4 more with pretty poor results but at least I tried to solder those. After that I didn't build another full etched kit until the pandemic the best part of a decade later. This return to kit building was the GER E22 #151 that features a lot in these pages.

But what of the first 5?

Well apart from the very first that little remains of it the other 4 do still exist mostly in a bad state of disrepair and blobs of solder.

Well one of the four failures is having it's chassis rebuilt!

These are the frames for a North London Railway 0-6-0T the old GEM kit and branch lines chassis that I attempted to build in 2012. It's now been converted to EM, straitened and had compensation added.

Yeah I know Im building chassis after chassis but I'm on a roll so I will keep doing this kind of work whilst I have the tools out and have momentum and motivation.

The other question I'm sure you may ask is about the other 3 surviving failures...


Well another of them is my much mistreated/much loved hunslet diesel, that I'm sure we've featured before... It's still awaiting finishing and a DCC chip to bring it into service but it does work nicely now.

As to the other two.... That's a story for another day...

 

[AJC]

Yeah I know I'm building chassis after chassis but I'm on a roll so I will keep doing this kind of work whilst I have the tools out and have momentum and motivation.

Nothing wrong with that: if you're doing the same task (more or less), and it has a decent number of repeatable elements, requiring the same tools and approach, why not do them all at once? I find I have to be in the mood to do mechanical tasks like this - or soldering up screw couplings, glazing, or whatever - whereas I enjoy making bodies and detailing the things and can happily dip into that, so while the broaches, files, jigs and so on are out, plough on and do.

Adam

 

[Mike Garwood]

I got my first etched kit on my 18th birthday. Needless to say that as I superglued it together (I wasn't allowed a soldering iron)

That's a story for another day...

My first Comet chassis was also superglued together - including the bearings, and I struggled to glue the coupling rods together. Needless to say that's still on the shelf of shame.

Mike

 

[Herb Garden]

so while the broaches, files, jigs and so on are out, plough on and do.

I intend on doing so

Is this enough wheels? Try and guess which are for which project.


These really small ones are interesting. They actually are from failed kit number 1 which was a backwoods 009 loco (no idea on the brand of the wheel) but they are the perfect fit for failed kit 4 and it's a size not available in 4mm normally.


The issue is the crankpins have snapped off and there's no way of removing them from the back . Does anyone have any good ideas on how they could be removed?

My first Comet chassis was also superglued together - including the bearings, and I struggled to glue the coupling rods together. Needless to say that's still on the shelf of shame.

Thanks for sharing Mike! It's a real boost to my confidence to know that others have made the same learning mistakes I have and gone on to make fantastic models.

 

[AJC]

Ah! Backwoods. I think their wheels were from Sharman, the moulded in crankpins were certainly a Sharman feature. My first etched loco was their little Barclay 0-4-0 which I’m still rather fond of (and which still works, amazingly). Tricky to get running really well, and I think modern components - the little open framed Mashima(?) could certainly be improved on and might yet - would make a difference on that score. The recent Bachmann 009 locos put it in the shade.

Not sure what the answer is for the crankpin though: since you do your own etch design, I think I’d look at sourcing an appropriate disc wheel and adding an overlay with the crank etched on to provide a consistent dimension. You could then drill through and fit a crankpin of your choice. Might these be a basis? Products – tagged "wheels" – Light Railway Stores

I can’t think what the prototype would be for a kit with wheels that small though.

Adam

EDIT: 2' 3" - 3' 9" - the 2’ 3” drivers look like the ones. Out of stock in 00/EM.

 

[simond]

. Does anyone have any good ideas on how they could be removed?

Try here, look down for “rescuing Slaters wheels”

Model Parts Made For Others

 

[Herb Garden]

You could then drill through and fit a crankpin of your choice.

Try here, look down for “rescuing Slaters wheels”

Gents, thank you for your input it has helped build a plan in my head of how I tackle this problem.


So I've cleaned up the wheel front and back


I drilled a tiny hole where the back of the crankpin is once satisfied I was hitting metal I opened it up gradually with a larger but. A scalpel was used to clean up and then a small screwdriver was used to turn the screw and break the bond with the plastic.


A reversed drill bit in a pin chuck was used with some force to pop the screw out. One of those tasks with a definite ping!


A Gibson M1 crankpin fits really well in the hole left. A bit of adhesive on the back and it's ready for use. 3 down one to go. Wish me luck!

 

[Herb Garden]

Success!

Although that last one was a pig... Ready for the loco... Have you guessed what it is yet? Think about a steam loco that has been in preservation in Norfolk longer than it was revenue earning service...

 

[AJC]

Well done on rescuing the wheels! I admit that I’m struggling a bit with the prototype: the only loco (standard gauge), associated with Norfolk with drivers that small I can think of is Gazelle… but that’s obviously down at Tenterden. These days, the criteria that a loco has been in preservation longer than it was in service does not narrow things down.

Adam

 

[Herb Garden]

Well done on rescuing the wheels! I admit that I’m struggling a bit with the prototype: the only loco (standard gauge), associated with Norfolk with drivers that small I can think of is Gazelle… but that’s obviously down at Tenterden. These days, the criteria that a loco has been in preservation longer than it was in service does not narrow things down.

Adam

Born & worked in the north east
5 preserved 4 survive
Lives near a Norfolk garden

Is that a good enough riddle for you?

 

[AJC]

Born & worked in the north east
5 preserved 4 survive
Lives near a Norfolk garden

Is that a good enough riddle for you?

Oh, the H0 crane tank! Pete McParlin's great screw up (courtesy of an odd scale to fit the page in the Railway Modeller I think it was).

Adam

 

[Herb Garden]

Oh, the H0 crane tank! Pete McParlin's great screw up (courtesy of an odd scale to fit the page in the Railway Modeller I think it was).

Adam

Yes it is the crane tank. But HO? I thought it was a 4mm model? Please tell me I didn't fix those wheels up for nothing....

 

[AJC]

Yes it is the crane tank. But HO? I thought it was a 4mm model? Please tell me I didn't fix those wheels up for nothing....

Sorry, yes it is (2' 10" wheels on the real thing rather than 2' 3"). I have that from Pete himself a lifetime ago. It can be built in EM (and even P4, Tim Shackleton did one), and you can see a picture in this thread from the other channel that it's obviously *very* small. Walker Marine (the Hull MRS layout - I think @Rippers was responsible - had at least one).

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/168313-backwoods-miniatures-doxford-crane-tank-0-4-0-kit/

Now. I think I could live with that.

What I would do, though this would mean diverging from the prototype, would be to amend the cab by removing the top of the side sheet over the steps and moving up/reshaping the dumb buffers to allow the smokebox door to open, to get close to 4mm buffer height.

Adam

 

[Herb Garden]

Sorry, yes it is (2' 10" wheels on the real thing rather than 2' 3"). I have that from Pete himself a lifetime ago. It can be built in EM (and even P4, Tim Shackleton did one), and you can see a picture in this thread from the other channel that it's obviously *very* small. Walker Marine (the Hull MRS layout - I think @Rippers was responsible - had at least one).

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/168313-backwoods-miniatures-doxford-crane-tank-0-4-0-kit/

Now. I think I could live with that.

What I would do, though this would mean diverging from the prototype, would be to amend the cab by removing the top of the side sheet over the steps and moving up/reshaping the dumb buffers to allow the smokebox door to open, to get close to 4mm buffer height.

Adam

That's interesting and annoying and a relief in equal measure.

It's interesting as I hadn't known this.

Frustrating that I've just spent 2 days restoring a set of 2'3" wheels when the 2'9" wheels I originally bought in 2013 would have suited fine.

A relief that I found out now not when I completed it.

I hope the backwoods 4mm Vivian Garrett doesn't have the same issue.

The question is what to do about it I feel Adam that you are laying down a challenge that on my honour I can't refuse

 

[AJC]

Frustrating that I've just spent 2 days restoring a set of 2'3" wheels when the 2'9" wheels I originally bought in 2013 would have suited fine.

A relief that I found out now not when I completed it.

I hope the backwoods 4mm Vivian Garrett doesn't have the same issue.

The question is what to do about it I feel Adam that you are laying down a challenge that on my honour I can't refuse

Tricky, I admit. There's no guaranteeing 2'9" wheels would fit, of course. The Vivian Garratt is fine for scale, so far as I know a rubber ruler job in some areas, apparently. @Giles obviously knows the prototype well and there is a GA in print. A challenging build but that's a given, it's a Garratt. Here's an EM version: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/139314-industrial-beyer-garratt-in-em-gauge/

Just providing information, not sure what I'd do, especially as eBay exists and there's likely a market regardless of condition, I still think an attractive model of what might represent a tiny loco is a worthwhile thing, but it's not my time and effort that I could be spending on something else. A finegrained judgement.

Adam

 

[RichardG]

The question is what to do about it I feel Adam that you are laying down a challenge that on my honour I can't refuse

There are modellers of British outline in H0 who would enjoy having such a loco on their layout. So an alternative approach is to advertise it and sell to someone who will build it as intended.

 

[Herb Garden]

I'm sorry to those reading the thread recently that there haven't been many pictures of actually doing stuff.

The crane tank will get built, I'm not sure how but it will given my early links with Bresingham Steam Museum that project will happen.

But meanwhile and with a link to Bresingham of a sort work has been going on on the T26 (E4)


The chassis has been rebuilt to EM gauge boiler filled in underneath and I've added the front wrap and a new front plate hath been fitted.

 

[Rippers]

Sorry, yes it is (2' 10" wheels on the real thing rather than 2' 3"). I have that from Pete himself a lifetime ago. It can be built in EM (and even P4, Tim Shackleton did one), and you can see a picture in this thread from the other channel that it's obviously *very* small. Walker Marine (the Hull MRS layout - I think @Rippers was responsible - had at least one).

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/168313-backwoods-miniatures-doxford-crane-tank-0-4-0-kit/

Now. I think I could live with that.

What I would do, though this would mean diverging from the prototype, would be to amend the cab by removing the top of the side sheet over the steps and moving up/reshaping the dumb buffers to allow the smokebox door to open, to get close to 4mm buffer height.

Adam

You are quite correct. Walker Marine did intact feature a pair of the Doxford Crane Tanks. I still have them now. The fact that the kit turned out to be HO was an annoyance and made building them for EM gauge mire difficult as moving the cylinders and wheels out to suit the wider gauge really highlighted the underscake body. We covered it by fattening the side tanks with plastcard. Which worked given the less conventional viewing on the scenic area of the layout. I would have liked the chance to replace them with 4mm models though had the option of a correct scale model ever been available.

 

[Herb Garden]

You are quite correct. Walker Marine did intact feature a pair of the Doxford Crane Tanks. I still have them now. The fact that the kit turned out to be HO was an annoyance and made building them for EM gauge mire difficult as moving the cylinders and wheels out to suit the wider gauge really highlighted the underscake body. We covered it by fattening the side tanks with plastcard. Which worked given the less conventional viewing on the scenic area of the layout. I would have liked the chance to replace them with 4mm models though had the option of a correct scale model ever been available.

I remember Walker Marine as one of the layouts that really inspired me in my early modeling. Never saw it in the flesh sadly but It was featured in Model rail when I was in my teens and as it caught my imagination so much I cut out the pages carefully and they are still in one of my scrapbooks to this day. Following your post I've dug them out and and am very much enjoying rereading the article. The viewing angle is a still a stroke of genius.

As to the crane tank. I can see what you have done from one of the photos now you have described it. That helps my thinking of what I do with mine.

Current thinking is that if British HO modellers can cut and shut models to shrink them down to 3.5mm can I not cut and splice an HO model to grow them to 4mm scale?