john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Your work is quite frankly superb Mick 
7mm 7mm Mick's Workbench - JLTRT Royal Scot
- Thread starter 7mmMick
- Start date
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
That looks superb Mick
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
Nice work Mick.
Regards
Dan
Regards
Dan
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Cheers Fella's the camera is reasonably kind but highlights the bits that need more attention, you know the part that you didn't finish quite soldering and would come back to! All being well I can motor on in the week and let you know how the inside motion goes,
ATB Mick
the camera is reasonably kind but highlights the bits that need more attention, you know the part that you didn't finish quite soldering and would come back to! All being well I can motor on in the week and let you know how the inside motion goes,ATB Mick
micknich2003
Western Thunderer
Mick, excellent work, I look forward to seeing the J73 completed and then the A7 etc, that we talk about.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Thanks again everyone
This is where I have learnt a huge amount. Having read lots of articles on scratch building it was obvious that I needed lots of works drawings and photographs to assist in the build. So as you know I payed a visit to the NRM and obtained a GA and also photographed lots of other drawings I thought (in my naive way) that I had everything that I needed. I was wrong. It's amazing really what little dimensions the GA offers, some are better than others but on a whole from a model making point of view they're not a one stop shop. The measurements it does have can be used to scale off but really that's a real no no and you should only ever work from dimensions. I have found that sometimes you have to just bend the rules a bit with this.
I still don't have the true dimensions of the splashers and other little bits and bobs. However I can overcome this with what I have I think.
So to answer Graham, having studied all the drawings I have, it seems that there is a fixing at the top of the cover which holds it in situ. This is represented in the casting and I have a few in stock. However this particular one didn't seem to be cast true so I have removed it and will reinstate it later when the detail work starts in earnest. If you look back to here http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?attachments/2011_0706g5cabroof0020-jpg.5830/ you will see this one remains ( same boiler/fittings etc )
ATB Mick
This is where I have learnt a huge amount. Having read lots of articles on scratch building it was obvious that I needed lots of works drawings and photographs to assist in the build. So as you know I payed a visit to the NRM and obtained a GA and also photographed lots of other drawings I thought (in my naive way) that I had everything that I needed. I was wrong. It's amazing really what little dimensions the GA offers, some are better than others but on a whole from a model making point of view they're not a one stop shop. The measurements it does have can be used to scale off but really that's a real no no and you should only ever work from dimensions. I have found that sometimes you have to just bend the rules a bit with this.
I still don't have the true dimensions of the splashers and other little bits and bobs. However I can overcome this with what I have I think.
So to answer Graham, having studied all the drawings I have, it seems that there is a fixing at the top of the cover which holds it in situ. This is represented in the casting and I have a few in stock. However this particular one didn't seem to be cast true so I have removed it and will reinstate it later when the detail work starts in earnest. If you look back to here http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?attachments/2011_0706g5cabroof0020-jpg.5830/ you will see this one remains ( same boiler/fittings etc )
ATB Mick
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Interesting, on the whole I've found the GA's I'm working from to be acceptably accurate, I've checked a fair few marked measurements and all scale exactly the same so I'm happy to scale the rest that are not marked.
To be honest I doubt the real locos were that accurate when it comes to body and sundry fittings, valve gear yes but even then said standard parts very rarely fitted other locos, it was found that Gresley A4 gear was often bespoke to a particular loco and during works visits it was either marked from the loco it was retrieved from or if 'lost' and the replacement slightly out, one was sent back to stores to rummage through and find a set that did fit.
There is also of course the train of thought, if you don't know what the measurement is, how will anyone else, further, if they do, will you let them measure your model or would they even care to, in short, it's your model and personally I take the view that if it looks right then that’s good enough for most people, so pinching and odd inch here or there is...let’s be honest....quietly acceptable....but not publically admit able LOL.
There is of course the kudos of knowing that your model is accurate in all respects to 0.05mm but I'm slowly coming to the realisation that O gauge is perhaps not the best scale to work to such tolerances, but, each to their own 
To be honest I doubt the real locos were that accurate when it comes to body and sundry fittings, valve gear yes but even then said standard parts very rarely fitted other locos, it was found that Gresley A4 gear was often bespoke to a particular loco and during works visits it was either marked from the loco it was retrieved from or if 'lost' and the replacement slightly out, one was sent back to stores to rummage through and find a set that did fit.
There is also of course the train of thought, if you don't know what the measurement is, how will anyone else, further, if they do, will you let them measure your model or would they even care to, in short, it's your model and personally I take the view that if it looks right then that’s good enough for most people, so pinching and odd inch here or there is...let’s be honest....quietly acceptable....but not publically admit able LOL.
There is of course the kudos of knowing that your model is accurate in all respects to 0.05mm but I'm slowly coming to the realisation that O gauge is perhaps not the best scale to work to such tolerances
, but, each to their own
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Interesting, on the whole I've found the GA's I'm working from to be acceptably accurate, I've checked a fair few marked measurements and all scale exactly the same so I'm happy to scale the rest that are not marked.
To be honest I doubt the real locos were that accurate when it comes to body and sundry fittings, valve gear yes but even then said standard parts very rarely fitted other locos, it was found that Gresley A4 gear was often bespoke to a particular loco and during works visits it was either marked from the loco it was retrieved from or if 'lost' and the replacement slightly out, one was sent back to stores to rummage through and find a set that did fit.
There is also of course the train of thought, if you don't know what the measurement is, how will anyone else, further, if they do, will you let them measure your model or would they even care to, in short, it's your model and personally I take the view that if it looks right then that’s good enough for most people, so pinching and odd inch here or there is...let’s be honest....quietly acceptable....but not publically admit able LOL.
There is of course the kudos of knowing that your model is accurate in all respects to 0.05mm but I'm slowly coming to the realisation that O gauge is perhaps not the best scale to work to such tolerances
Mick I totally agree with this. My own personal view is that as long as it is a good representation then I'm happy with it. I have and will continue to, where I really can't find another solution scale off a drawing. Knowing that if I know 'A' and I know 'B' then C must be something like..... The GA I'm working to at the minute seems to be bang on like you say, it's just a little frustrating that there are the odd gaps for model makers in some written dimensions. Also where you get the odd error in copy it makes scaling off difficult. I suppose you always get the odd rivet counter who says that an inch out or that's not right, but as you say it's my model and as long as i'm happy then who cares
My mate Mick Nicholosn always reminds me that often the real thing wasn't built as accruate and over the lifetime of certainly this J73 it was rough shunted and banged about all over the place. One of the pictures i'm using as reference shows it with all the rear bufferbeam and footplate bent. I'm sure the repair just involved starightening it out again in some way and i'm sure at no point did anyone go to Darlington to get the drawing out and set about said footplate with a micometre when the repair was carried out
ATB Mick
Stirling O
Active Member
Mick, that J73 of yours is really coming along. Your attention to detail and the quality of your modelling is inspirational, can't wait to see the finished loco.
Best wishes,
Dave (H&BR)
Best wishes,
Dave (H&BR)
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
No worries at all
Cheers Dave
,I'm ploughing on with the inside motion but it's hard going . Having never tackled inside motion I was supprised how difficult it is. I've done lots of outside motion and I thought sticking to my rules of not too much slop and keep everything as smooth as possible would see me through and on the hole it has so far. However I am amazed how much metal I have had to remove from the castings to get things to run smoothly. I expected an amount of cleaning up but I think i'll need a new set of files after this lot
Anyway I'll post some pictures up soon as I intend to finish the motion in the next couple of days.Oh and Dave, I'll hold you to that test run, who will finish first
ATB Mick
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Mick,
I am a bit behind you but I have spent a bit of time over the last 3 nights cleaning up the castings and getting the crossheads to run in the slidebars. Sadly I have just discovered that I have no nickel rod small enough for the pins so it looks like an Eileens order is on the cards.
I am a bit behind you but I have spent a bit of time over the last 3 nights cleaning up the castings and getting the crossheads to run in the slidebars. Sadly I have just discovered that I have no nickel rod small enough for the pins so it looks like an Eileens order is on the cards.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
It's a good start mate, I first cleaned up the sidebars/crossheads and valve rod/guide assemblies. Having fitted them to the cylinder back as you've seen. From there it was the crank axle and connecting rods. Problem number one!! I've had to remove both length and material from the underside and back of the slide bar to allow clearence for the connecting rod, this wasn't easy with it being inside the frames. The next real headache has been the slider assembly, I've had to remove lots of metal to get things working smoothly there. Today's job is the motion plate and finishing off the slide assembly. I'm not sure that my process is correct but so far it's going ok and even though there's lots more filing involved than I thought I can't wait to see it all working
oh and forgot to mention, the 1mm rod for the pins came with the valve gear ?ATB Mick
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Sadly not with mine it didn't......
I am not going to start to assemble mine until I get the drawing from the NRM. It should be here this next week (6 weeks from me ordering it) but they still haven't cashed the cheque so it may be longer.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Help !!! 
The Joy valve gear is putting up a real fight. As previously mentioned I've had to remove material from the slide bars, so the ends now look like wedges of cheese and my first motion plate is now in the bin, NOT HAPPY. The main problem with this being it's modelled on a J72 ( Stephenson's valve gear ) as I don't have a plan drawing of the J73 (only side on and from above drawing). As such no provision was made for the valve rods.
The second motion plate as a recessed top edge to allow the valve rods to pass cleanly but beacause the valve and cylinder centres on my GA are 9mm apart and LG's kit says set them 11mm apart this cuts down the clearence by 2mm and has caused major issues. I'm too far gone to change now as the whole smoke box and cylinder back is designed around the GA. I've thinned the motion plate top to allow free running but it is now very thin
I think my main issue has been this. I am trying to work closely to the GA but the valve gear is a retro fit of parts, a one size fits all type affair. No complaints with this as LG's stuff is lovely and it has to be a 'jack of all trades' kit to appeal to the masses. So i think I would have been better fitting the kit and almost forgetting parts of the GA. In general the whole lot requires lots of filing and messing about but at the minute it runs well and with a good running in it'll be even better. As you can see I've only built up one side at the moment to make sure it's smooth before I crack on with the other.
Ok reasons for help, having spent hours to get here I've noticed that the Anchor link seem to protrude very low in the frames when the crank is at it's bottom of throw. I've checked pictures and it can be seen at this level
But not at this;
I have checked the drawings and noted the following. The Anchor link is in the correct place, secured to a bracket on the motion plate and the length is as per the drawing. Is this correct then or not is what I'm really asking, It just seems too low but I know little of Joy gear and never seen it in real life
All this aside it works and when the other side is done and run in I'll be over the moon. FInally a shot of it in place with the body
ATB Mick
The Joy valve gear is putting up a real fight. As previously mentioned I've had to remove material from the slide bars, so the ends now look like wedges of cheese and my first motion plate is now in the bin, NOT HAPPY. The main problem with this being it's modelled on a J72 ( Stephenson's valve gear ) as I don't have a plan drawing of the J73 (only side on and from above drawing). As such no provision was made for the valve rods.
The second motion plate as a recessed top edge to allow the valve rods to pass cleanly but beacause the valve and cylinder centres on my GA are 9mm apart and LG's kit says set them 11mm apart this cuts down the clearence by 2mm and has caused major issues. I'm too far gone to change now as the whole smoke box and cylinder back is designed around the GA. I've thinned the motion plate top to allow free running but it is now very thin
I think my main issue has been this. I am trying to work closely to the GA but the valve gear is a retro fit of parts, a one size fits all type affair. No complaints with this as LG's stuff is lovely and it has to be a 'jack of all trades' kit to appeal to the masses. So i think I would have been better fitting the kit and almost forgetting parts of the GA. In general the whole lot requires lots of filing and messing about but at the minute it runs well and with a good running in it'll be even better. As you can see I've only built up one side at the moment to make sure it's smooth before I crack on with the other.
Ok reasons for help, having spent hours to get here I've noticed that the Anchor link seem to protrude very low in the frames when the crank is at it's bottom of throw. I've checked pictures and it can be seen at this level
But not at this;
I have checked the drawings and noted the following. The Anchor link is in the correct place, secured to a bracket on the motion plate and the length is as per the drawing. Is this correct then or not is what I'm really asking, It just seems too low but I know little of Joy gear and never seen it in real life
All this aside it works and when the other side is done and run in I'll be over the moon. FInally a shot of it in place with the body
ATB Mick
Attachments
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Mick, sorry to hear of your woes with this.
You look to have quite a bit of frame depth to play with too. There is a motion plate included on the etch in my F8 kit but at the bit where it's designed to go, the frames are quite shallow so no doubt some fun will ensue at the point. I won't be using the motion plate because the holes in the middle are too big for my slide bars but I was planning to use it as a pattern to get the outer shape and dimensions. Plus there are some nice etches for the top and bottom of it to create that 3D cast look.
I can't offer any advice on Joys valve gear as I am a novice like you but I am sure that it will work out okay in the end
You look to have quite a bit of frame depth to play with too. There is a motion plate included on the etch in my F8 kit but at the bit where it's designed to go, the frames are quite shallow so no doubt some fun will ensue at the point. I won't be using the motion plate because the holes in the middle are too big for my slide bars but I was planning to use it as a pattern to get the outer shape and dimensions. Plus there are some nice etches for the top and bottom of it to create that 3D cast look.
I can't offer any advice on Joys valve gear as I am a novice like you but I am sure that it will work out okay in the end
