Rivermead Central
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magmouse
Western Thunderer
Apologies for the thread diversion - Graham @Dog Star is obliquely referring to the use of epoxy resin to make the lenses of tail lamps, lit internally by small LEDs. I used this technique recently on a brake van build, described on the other channel:
Like Graham, my ears pricked up at the reference to ‘optically clear’.
Nick.
Like Graham, my ears pricked up at the reference to ‘optically clear’.
Nick.
No problem. Interesting stuff. I was admiring your photos of Scruff’s Junction yesterday.
Firstly, a windows update:
The first of the large arched windows is glued in place. Some filler will be required around the outside of the window frame as there is a small gap between the vertical edges of the frame and the bricks. I had the same problem with the window frame being slightly too narrow for the hole in the wall using the same type of windows in the Benham’s factory building.
There was recently some discussion of Henry Greenly’s work for Bassett-Lowke prompted by @magmouse’s fine model of a GWR goods brake van posted in the thread ‘What’s on your workbench - 2025’. There is no doubt that Greenly had a hugely significant role in the rapid improvements in the standard and accuracy of small-scale railway models in the first decade of the twentieth century. The locomotives made for Bassett-Lowke by Bing but designed by Greenly in particular were astonishingly good for the period and stand comparison with much later production.
At some point, a large quantity of company paperwork must have ‘escaped’ from Bassett-Lowke’s head office in Northampton, as from time-to-time all sorts of Bassett-Lowke documents come up for sale. I bought the drawing shown below in an internet auction about 15 years ago. It’s the only ‘internal’ Bassett-Lowke document I have, i.e. never intended to be sold or seen by the public.
This is Henry Greenly’s drawing for the Bing model of Caledonian Railway no.142:
The drawing is on drafting linen, signed by Greenly and dated 9 March 1910:
I wish I could show a picture of the handsome locomotive Bing created from Greenly’s design, but sadly I don’t have one and it’s highly unlikely I ever will. It’s a very scarce model, lovely to look at and correspondingly expensive.
One point worth noting shown here is that as early as 1910 the wheel back-to-back distance was fixed at 27.0 mm:
Although the flanges got smaller and the wheels got narrower, the back-to-back stayed at 27.0 mm right to the end of the standard Bassett-Lowke 0 gauge range. So I can run Bassett-Lowke rolling stock from any period on Rivermead Central.
I admit I’d rather have Bing’s model of CR no.142, but Greenly’s drawing is an amazing survivor which I fully realise I am very lucky to own. A real piece of model railway history.
The first of the large arched windows is glued in place. Some filler will be required around the outside of the window frame as there is a small gap between the vertical edges of the frame and the bricks. I had the same problem with the window frame being slightly too narrow for the hole in the wall using the same type of windows in the Benham’s factory building.
There was recently some discussion of Henry Greenly’s work for Bassett-Lowke prompted by @magmouse’s fine model of a GWR goods brake van posted in the thread ‘What’s on your workbench - 2025’. There is no doubt that Greenly had a hugely significant role in the rapid improvements in the standard and accuracy of small-scale railway models in the first decade of the twentieth century. The locomotives made for Bassett-Lowke by Bing but designed by Greenly in particular were astonishingly good for the period and stand comparison with much later production.
At some point, a large quantity of company paperwork must have ‘escaped’ from Bassett-Lowke’s head office in Northampton, as from time-to-time all sorts of Bassett-Lowke documents come up for sale. I bought the drawing shown below in an internet auction about 15 years ago. It’s the only ‘internal’ Bassett-Lowke document I have, i.e. never intended to be sold or seen by the public.
This is Henry Greenly’s drawing for the Bing model of Caledonian Railway no.142:
The drawing is on drafting linen, signed by Greenly and dated 9 March 1910:
I wish I could show a picture of the handsome locomotive Bing created from Greenly’s design, but sadly I don’t have one and it’s highly unlikely I ever will. It’s a very scarce model, lovely to look at and correspondingly expensive.
One point worth noting shown here is that as early as 1910 the wheel back-to-back distance was fixed at 27.0 mm:
Although the flanges got smaller and the wheels got narrower, the back-to-back stayed at 27.0 mm right to the end of the standard Bassett-Lowke 0 gauge range. So I can run Bassett-Lowke rolling stock from any period on Rivermead Central.
I admit I’d rather have Bing’s model of CR no.142, but Greenly’s drawing is an amazing survivor which I fully realise I am very lucky to own. A real piece of model railway history.
Quite a few hours spent working on Rivermead Central today. And not a lot of tangible progress to show for it.
I refer to my earlier post, #271. Today, I have been measuring, temporarily assembling and laying track to check distances and trying to determine how to proceed with the ‘missing’ section of baseboard and wall close to the entrance to Cavendish Goods yard.
I first tested if it would be possible to use a Bassett-Lowke tunnel mouth where the Cavendish Goods branch disappears under Cairnie Junction station:
With the tunnel mouth in position, the track on the lower level would emerge from the tunnel mouth at the end of the high level base-board.
Sadly, the Bassett-Lowke tunnel mouth is too wide for the space available. It was quickly apparent that even adjusting the position of the tracks within the narrow limits now possible, or moving the tunnel entrance closer to the camera, wasn’t going to work. I may be able to use the Bassett-Lowke tunnel mouth somewhere else, but I will have to scratch build something for the above location.
I then got on with fixing the exact position of the wall between the high- and low-level base-boards:
I’m nearly there with establishing where the wall needs to be. As can be seen in the above photo, there is very little space to spare on both the high- and low-level baseboards. But it can be done! Once the wall position is exactly determined, I will make the missing section of high-level base-board and fasten it in place. I cut the plank I will be using for the new section of base-board roughly to size this afternoon.
Just for completeness, here is the 1924 catalogue entry for tunnel mouths:
The illustration shows a Gauge 1 tunnel mouth. The locomotive is a Claughton, made by Bing both before and after WW1, but only in Gauge 1 and only as live steam.
I refer to my earlier post, #271. Today, I have been measuring, temporarily assembling and laying track to check distances and trying to determine how to proceed with the ‘missing’ section of baseboard and wall close to the entrance to Cavendish Goods yard.
I first tested if it would be possible to use a Bassett-Lowke tunnel mouth where the Cavendish Goods branch disappears under Cairnie Junction station:
With the tunnel mouth in position, the track on the lower level would emerge from the tunnel mouth at the end of the high level base-board.
Sadly, the Bassett-Lowke tunnel mouth is too wide for the space available. It was quickly apparent that even adjusting the position of the tracks within the narrow limits now possible, or moving the tunnel entrance closer to the camera, wasn’t going to work. I may be able to use the Bassett-Lowke tunnel mouth somewhere else, but I will have to scratch build something for the above location.
I then got on with fixing the exact position of the wall between the high- and low-level base-boards:
I’m nearly there with establishing where the wall needs to be. As can be seen in the above photo, there is very little space to spare on both the high- and low-level baseboards. But it can be done! Once the wall position is exactly determined, I will make the missing section of high-level base-board and fasten it in place. I cut the plank I will be using for the new section of base-board roughly to size this afternoon.
Just for completeness, here is the 1924 catalogue entry for tunnel mouths:
The illustration shows a Gauge 1 tunnel mouth. The locomotive is a Claughton, made by Bing both before and after WW1, but only in Gauge 1 and only as live steam.
James
Western Thunderer
I've just bought a pack to find out!
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Not quite in the same league as the Caledonian engine drawing but I have had this in my collection for a while. Given to me by my grandparents many many years ago. Although printed on paper it does have a printed version of H Greenly's signature.
I have no idea of the date but as it's lettered for Metropolitan it would suggest pre-1933, however it could be later but with the then new LPTB/London Transport livery being deemed uninteresting.
I have no idea of the date but as it's lettered for Metropolitan it would suggest pre-1933, however it could be later but with the then new LPTB/London Transport livery being deemed uninteresting.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
This is Henry Greenly’s drawing for the Bing model of Caledonian Railway no.142:
What is interesting is all the dimensions are in millimetres (apart from the overall length measurement). Is this a legacy from Märklin and Bing?
The drawing was intended for Bing, who then manufactured the model. There must have been other information sent to Nuremberg too, particularly as regards the paint scheme. Also I assume photographs of the real loco. The model was additionally made in Gauge 1, so another drawing required for the larger scale.
I would guess 1920s.
The built but unpainted model illustrated has a Bassett-Lowke motor bogie. I’m not sure when this was first manufactured but it was used in an SR electric motor coach (converted at Northampton from a standard Bing brake/3rd) catalogued in the late 1920s. Then in the scale model Euston—Watford 3-coach emu during the 1930s, and the model tube train.
The unpowered bogie on the Metropolitan loco is from a Bing ‘1921 stock’ coach. These coaches were the standard 0 gauge tinplate coaches sold by Bassett-Lowke from 1921 until c.1930.
It’s unlikely the date is after 1933 because ‘historic’ railway modelling was then almost unknown, and certainly not mainstream. Manufacturers and modellers wanted to reproduce the most exciting new developments on the real railway in miniature form and only very few enthusiasts were building models portraying the past. For this reason, a date when the real Metropolitan locos were still quite new seems likely.
I notice now that the model of no.17 is not named. That suggests a date of pre-1927. So between 1923 and 1927 when the real locos were newly built.
I wonder if the Greenly design inspired (or was used by) Mills Bros of Sheffield (Milbro) who listed a wooden bodied model of the Metropolitan locos in their catalogues c.1930.
The Milbro version of the Metropolitan loco is shown here:
Milbro Locomotives
www.milbromodelrailways.co.uk
The Milbro model is also numbered 17 and is fitted with the same Bassett-Lowke motor bogie. (I don’t think Milbro produced their own motor bogie, so ‘buying in’ a Bassett-Lowke one would make sense. Bassett-Lowke later sold rolling stock using wooden bodies manufactured by Milbro — so there was a relationship).
The Milbro illustration shows a loco where the unpowered bogie is Bassett-Lowke, but Northampton made, not Bing. This bogie (catalogue number 612/0) was offered as an upgrade option for the standard tinplate coach (an extra 5/6). The bogie sides are the same as those on the motor bogie.
Greenly certainly worked as a consultant for Mills Bros as well as Bassett-Lowke. My best guess is the published design shown by Yorkshire Dave (thank you!) is also the basis of the Milbro model.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
The Milbro version of the Metropolitan loco is shown here:
The Milbro model is also numbered 17 and is fitted with the same Bassett-Lowke motor bogie. (I don’t think Milbro produced their own motor bogie, so ‘buying in’ a Bassett-Lowke one would make sense. Bassett-Lowke later sold rolling stock using wooden bodies manufactured by Milbro — so there was a relationship).Milbro Locomotives
www.milbromodelrailways.co.uk
The Milbro illustration shows a loco where the unpowered bogie is Bassett-Lowke, but Northampton made, not Bing. This bogie (catalogue number 612/0) was offered as an upgrade option for the standard tinplate coach (an extra 5/6). The bogie sides are the same as those on the motor bogie.
Greenly certainly worked as a consultant for Mills Bros as well as Bassett-Lowke. My best guess is the published design shown by Yorkshire Dave (thank you!) is also the basis of the Milbro model.
Thanks for this - it was a really interesting rabbit hole regarding Milbro - a company I hadn't come across.
It appears several engineering companies of the period diversified into model making but didn't really recover after WWII. Maybe due to their attention being diverted for other work during the conflict.
A slight change of plan.
I still haven’t quite finished the Benham’s office building, but I have been thinking ahead to what comes next along the back wall of the layout on the west side. In my post #215, I said I had decided on the side wall of a ‘north-light’ type factory building in low relief. I found some very nice units to make such a building offered by Intentio. The problem being they are about 15mm taller than the wall I have to cover. (See photos in earlier posts and below; there is only around 135 mm of vertical wall face above the base boards before the start of the sloping ceiling).
I considered reducing the height of the Intentio wall units but was put off by the extra work. Then I noticed that, due to some inaccuracy in the construction of the room or building, the vertical section of wall above the base-boards gets taller towards the southern wall. Further south along the western edge of the layout, the Intentio units will actually fit without modification. So the north-light factory building is definitely on, but it is not going to be next to the Benham’s office.
Instead, I plan on this:
To the right, a boundary wall approximately 75 cm long. So very quick and easy to model, not much work. This will take the ‘wall covering’ of buildings etc. to the end of the Benham’s private siding. Then, behind the points, a bothy or office for the yard staff. It should be clear how these structures fit in from this photo:
The lean-to for the yard staff will be between the curve leading into the Benham’s siding and the point lever.
I started making up the boundary wall section on Friday and got all the brick panels on the front face yesterday and applied primer. So quick to do and 75 cm length of low-relief back-drop scenery is well on the way to being finished.
The bothy building is more complex of course, but I think will be appropriate for the location.
I still haven’t quite finished the Benham’s office building, but I have been thinking ahead to what comes next along the back wall of the layout on the west side. In my post #215, I said I had decided on the side wall of a ‘north-light’ type factory building in low relief. I found some very nice units to make such a building offered by Intentio. The problem being they are about 15mm taller than the wall I have to cover. (See photos in earlier posts and below; there is only around 135 mm of vertical wall face above the base boards before the start of the sloping ceiling).
I considered reducing the height of the Intentio wall units but was put off by the extra work. Then I noticed that, due to some inaccuracy in the construction of the room or building, the vertical section of wall above the base-boards gets taller towards the southern wall. Further south along the western edge of the layout, the Intentio units will actually fit without modification. So the north-light factory building is definitely on, but it is not going to be next to the Benham’s office.
Instead, I plan on this:
To the right, a boundary wall approximately 75 cm long. So very quick and easy to model, not much work. This will take the ‘wall covering’ of buildings etc. to the end of the Benham’s private siding. Then, behind the points, a bothy or office for the yard staff. It should be clear how these structures fit in from this photo:
The lean-to for the yard staff will be between the curve leading into the Benham’s siding and the point lever.
I started making up the boundary wall section on Friday and got all the brick panels on the front face yesterday and applied primer. So quick to do and 75 cm length of low-relief back-drop scenery is well on the way to being finished.
The bothy building is more complex of course, but I think will be appropriate for the location.
James
Western Thunderer
Exactly so. The track is not a skilful representation of track from 100 years ago. It is track from 100 years ago. Likewise the buffer stops, but not the buildings.I love this! It's like time travel
jonte
Western Thunderer
I love this! It's like time travel
This.
All the windows are now installed in the Benham’s office:
The right hand window is currently just tacked in place with spots of glue to hold it in the correct position. I will add more glue to fix it properly. Both the arched windows need some filler around the edges of the frames to fill tiny gaps between the frames and the brickwork. I have to make and attach a plywood backing sheet, painted black inside, behind the main part of the building. Lastly, install the railings in front of the doorway.
Nearly done.
The right hand window is currently just tacked in place with spots of glue to hold it in the correct position. I will add more glue to fix it properly. Both the arched windows need some filler around the edges of the frames to fill tiny gaps between the frames and the brickwork. I have to make and attach a plywood backing sheet, painted black inside, behind the main part of the building. Lastly, install the railings in front of the doorway.
Nearly done.
I realise there may be some on WT who are sceptical, dismissive even, about clockwork as a way of powering model locomotives.
Sure, you cannot run a clockwork loco round-and-round a circuit, non-stop, for half-an-hour, or even five minutes. But a good loco will get round even a large circuit once, twice or three times (depending on size) on one wind. Or run the length of an end-to-end. Which, operationally, is fine.
The larger size motors in 0 gauge will do 100’ or more on one winding. For a given type of motor, obviously, locos with small diving wheels are slower, have shorter runs but will pull more. In the 1950s catalogue description of their standard 0-6-0 goods loco, Bassett-Lowke warned that the length of run was less than for their other models owing to the smaller wheels.
Performance is, ultimately, dependent on the main-spring. The more energy used to distort that piece of metal during winding, the more is available to power the train during a controlled release regulated by the governor. Powerful engines need long, broad springs — more metal to distort — so plenty of space. Some springs are ‘harder’ than others giving a stronger loco — but such springs are relatively brittle and more likely to break in service.
The clockwork motors made by most model train manufacturers all work in exactly the same way. The precise dimensions, fixing points etc. vary, but the principles of operation are identical. Reversing, for example, is effected by moving a plate pivoted on the driven axle which alternatively engages gear trains with either an odd or even number of gears. A few manufacturers did depart from usual practice. The Sheffield firm of W.H. Jubb, which had a brief existence during and immediately after WW1, had motors made for its clockwork models by a firm of Swiss clockmakers — and the motors show their origin in the parts used. The post-WW2 motors made by A. & J. van Riemsdyk have unconventional braking and reversing mechanisms. These van Riemsdyk motors are excellent performers and I will be using van Riemsdyk 0-6-0Ts to work the steeply graded Cavendish Goods branch.
Here is just a look at a van Riemsdyk 6-coupled mechanism:
Spring at the front, reversing lever in the cab (nearest the camera) and brake and speed control by turning the toothed wheel behind the reversing lever.
Here’s a video showing what a clockwork engine can do. Not mine, I found this on the internet. Bear in mind that the wagons have tinplate wheels with steel axles running in holes punched in tinplate W-irons. They are a lot less free running than a modern wagon would be. Also the very tight radius curves means there is a lot of resistance due to flanges bearing on the rails. So a vintage loco on vintage track has to exert a lot more effort to pull the same number of coaches/wagons compared with modern models. Nevertheless:
(Bing loco with a 6-coupled mechanism as manufactured in the late 1920s. Undoubtedly the most powerful 0 gauge clockwork motors ever made).
Sure, you cannot run a clockwork loco round-and-round a circuit, non-stop, for half-an-hour, or even five minutes. But a good loco will get round even a large circuit once, twice or three times (depending on size) on one wind. Or run the length of an end-to-end. Which, operationally, is fine.
The larger size motors in 0 gauge will do 100’ or more on one winding. For a given type of motor, obviously, locos with small diving wheels are slower, have shorter runs but will pull more. In the 1950s catalogue description of their standard 0-6-0 goods loco, Bassett-Lowke warned that the length of run was less than for their other models owing to the smaller wheels.
Performance is, ultimately, dependent on the main-spring. The more energy used to distort that piece of metal during winding, the more is available to power the train during a controlled release regulated by the governor. Powerful engines need long, broad springs — more metal to distort — so plenty of space. Some springs are ‘harder’ than others giving a stronger loco — but such springs are relatively brittle and more likely to break in service.
The clockwork motors made by most model train manufacturers all work in exactly the same way. The precise dimensions, fixing points etc. vary, but the principles of operation are identical. Reversing, for example, is effected by moving a plate pivoted on the driven axle which alternatively engages gear trains with either an odd or even number of gears. A few manufacturers did depart from usual practice. The Sheffield firm of W.H. Jubb, which had a brief existence during and immediately after WW1, had motors made for its clockwork models by a firm of Swiss clockmakers — and the motors show their origin in the parts used. The post-WW2 motors made by A. & J. van Riemsdyk have unconventional braking and reversing mechanisms. These van Riemsdyk motors are excellent performers and I will be using van Riemsdyk 0-6-0Ts to work the steeply graded Cavendish Goods branch.
Here is just a look at a van Riemsdyk 6-coupled mechanism:
Spring at the front, reversing lever in the cab (nearest the camera) and brake and speed control by turning the toothed wheel behind the reversing lever.
Here’s a video showing what a clockwork engine can do. Not mine, I found this on the internet. Bear in mind that the wagons have tinplate wheels with steel axles running in holes punched in tinplate W-irons. They are a lot less free running than a modern wagon would be. Also the very tight radius curves means there is a lot of resistance due to flanges bearing on the rails. So a vintage loco on vintage track has to exert a lot more effort to pull the same number of coaches/wagons compared with modern models. Nevertheless:
(Bing loco with a 6-coupled mechanism as manufactured in the late 1920s. Undoubtedly the most powerful 0 gauge clockwork motors ever made).
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The last piece for the Benham’s office building; the railings to go at the top of the steps in front of the doorway:
Brass posts intended for model ships obtained from Cornwall Model Boats (a most useful source of stuff). Rails of 1.2 mm diameter nickel silver rod. Soldered assembly for strength, chemically blackened then given a thin coat of black paint.
Now on the building:
Which means the building is finished. The third and last building for the Benham’s works.
I’m happy with it. It’s squarely and strongly built and I think will look fine on the layout. I’ll get it installed in the next few days.
Brass posts intended for model ships obtained from Cornwall Model Boats (a most useful source of stuff). Rails of 1.2 mm diameter nickel silver rod. Soldered assembly for strength, chemically blackened then given a thin coat of black paint.
Now on the building:
Which means the building is finished. The third and last building for the Benham’s works.
I’m happy with it. It’s squarely and strongly built and I think will look fine on the layout. I’ll get it installed in the next few days.