0.2mm Nozzles on FDM printers, worth it ?
- Thread starter Paul_H
- Start date
The answer is; yes it's worth it.
Gradients are much smoother with a 0.2mm nozzle and thinner layer sizes (0.06mm).
On my Bambu A1 swapping nozzles takes less than a minute and needs no tools. Spare nozzles are dirt cheap too.
Print times do go up a lot, but if you want the best possible results an extra wait is no great hardship.
The photo of the domed ends of a fuel tank show the differences; Left is a 0.4 print from a Creality printer, centre is a 0.4 @ 0.08 layer from the Bambu A1 and right is with 0.2 nozzle @ 0.06 layer.
The other photo is of a 16mm Ruston gearbox printed with the 0.2 and to show what's possible a 16mm scale teapot. (DeWinton drivers used teapots as oilers at Pen-Yr_Orsedd quarry.)
Gradients are much smoother with a 0.2mm nozzle and thinner layer sizes (0.06mm).
On my Bambu A1 swapping nozzles takes less than a minute and needs no tools. Spare nozzles are dirt cheap too.
Print times do go up a lot, but if you want the best possible results an extra wait is no great hardship.
The photo of the domed ends of a fuel tank show the differences; Left is a 0.4 print from a Creality printer, centre is a 0.4 @ 0.08 layer from the Bambu A1 and right is with 0.2 nozzle @ 0.06 layer.
The other photo is of a 16mm Ruston gearbox printed with the 0.2 and to show what's possible a 16mm scale teapot. (DeWinton drivers used teapots as oilers at Pen-Yr_Orsedd quarry.)
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Bobbyboy55
New Member
Hi.
I’ve literally just bought a Creality CR10 V3. If that gearbox is just a sample of the quality you can get then I’m going to be very busy.
Best of luck, I hope your experience of Creality is better than mine was :-(
The key to getting decent results is good calibration. Also remember that layer height is also a significant factor in getting good results.
I've recently been printing some figures for my models (16mm scale) and now push layer height to 0.05mm which seems to give results almost as good as resin prints, although print times start getting rather longer.
Bobbyboy55
New Member
Wow, I know the print times are longer when you push the slicing limits but that doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I’m still dabbling with Fusion hoping to get something to print out soon.
Marsh Lane
Western Thunderer
Yes, would totally agree with the view on the 0.2mm nozzle on the Bamboo A1 printer. I have printed some Templot track templates off on mine and the quality is fantastic.
I am about to start printing some roof sections and supporting columns (a la York) so will be interesting to see how they appear.
Rich
I am about to start printing some roof sections and supporting columns (a la York) so will be interesting to see how they appear.
Rich
Nigel Cliffe
Western Thunderer
As others have said, yes the 0.2mm nozzle will improve detail. This will be at expense of print time on machine.
But, it all depends on calibration after the change of nozzle. Some printers are much easier to do this than others.
But, it all depends on calibration after the change of nozzle. Some printers are much easier to do this than others.
One of the good features of the Bambu system is that the default settings work very well and need very little adjustment.
You only need to change things if you use an unsupported filament that performs very differently.
It's also worth noting that sometimes it's not necessary to drop nozzle sizes. I found that even with the 0.4mm nozzle these piles of slates printed well. Also the layer lines on the slate wall aren't particularly objectionable.
martin_wynne
Western Thunderer
This 4mm scale P4 track from a Bambu A1 printer with 0.2mm nozzle:
That was printed using the finest standard Bambu profile -- 0.06mm layers High Quality.
The layers can be set even thinner, but when using very thin layers some strength is lost, so there is a practical limit for functional components.
Also with thin layers the filament must be fully dried. If there is any moisture content in the filament the part will be much weaker and in extreme cases fall apart.
For constructional components such as point motor brackets and such like, use a larger nozzle and thicker layers. The part will be much stronger and a little moisture content won't have too much effect (e.g. filament reel left exposed to the air for several hours).
Fortunately on the Bambu A1 swapping the nozzle is easy and takes less than a minute, so an appropriate nozzle size can be selected for each job. The sizes available are 0.2mm, 0.4mm, 0.6mm, 0.8mm diameter. The filament flow rate is proportional to the square of the diameter so that is actually a very wide range -- a 0.8mm nozzle has 16 times the flow rate of a 0.2mm nozzle. This is why the 0.2mm nozzle increases print time so much. But FDM printers run unattended, so build a wagon kit or paint the stationmaster's hat while the printer chunters away in the corner by itself.
Martin.
NewportRod
Western Thunderer
Here are two 7mm/ft GBVs I printed on a Bambu A1, with a 0.4 mm nozzle on the left and a 0.2 on the right. I never bother taking the 0.2 nozzle out.
Rod
Rod
David Mylchreest
Western Thunderer
3D printed track was exhibited at Scaleforum earlier this year, but the results were nowhere as good as the photo above.This 4mm scale P4 track from a Bambu A1 printer with 0.2mm nozzle:
That was printed using the finest standard Bambu profile -- 0.06mm layers High Quality.
The layers can be set even thinner, but when using very thin layers some strength is lost, so there is a practical limit for functional components.
Also with thin layers the filament must be fully dried. If there is any moisture content in the filament the part will be much weaker and in extreme cases fall apart.
For constructional components such as point motor brackets and such like, use a larger nozzle and thicker layers. The part will be much stronger and a little moisture content won't have too much effect (e.g. filament reel left exposed to the air for several hours).
Fortunately on the Bambu A1 swapping the nozzle is easy and takes less than a minute, so an appropriate nozzle size can be selected for each job. The sizes available are 0.2mm, 0.4mm, 0.6mm, 0.8mm diameter. The filament flow rate is proportional to the square of the diameter so that is actually a very wide range -- a 0.8mm nozzle has 16 times the flow rate of a 0.2mm nozzle. This is why the 0.2mm nozzle increases print time so much. But FDM printers run unattended, so build a wagon kit or paint the stationmaster's hat while the printer chunters away in the corner by itself.
Martin.
Which makes me wonder; are there consistency issues with the process or were there issues with the exhibited track that were to do with that exhibit?
martin_wynne
Western Thunderer
@David Mylchreest
Hi David,
I don't know what was exhibited at Scaleforum. The turnout in the photo was available for viewing at Scalefour Crewe this year.
The results from 3D-printing can vary wildly according to which 3D printer is used, what nozzle size is used, what filament is used, what profile settings are used.
I have posted repeatedly what I used to create the turnout above. Anyone who does the same should be able to get the same results. They are repeatable for me on two different A1 printers.
1. STL file created by Templot set for COT track (rails slide-in) and the rail-section in use (above is EMGS code75 bullhead nickel-silver).
2. Bambu A1 printer, fitted with 0.2mm nozzle.
3. PVP glue-stick used to give good adhesion on build plate.
4. Bambu PLA Basic filament in grey. Filament never exposed to air for more than a few minutes. Transferred from a new sealed package to a sealed reel feeder containing desiccant:
Fully dried filament is important when using a 0.2mm nozzle and thin layers. Results with filament which has been exposed to air for any length of time will be poor, especially at this time of year.
5. STL file from Templot mesh-fixed and sliced in Bambu Studio software (free). Before slicing I rotate the part on the build plate so that the track is running generally in a north-south direction. This improves the dimensional accuracy of the track gauge and the rail-fit, but doesn't affect the actual appearance.
I set the highest available quality with 0.2mm nozzle, which Bambu call 0.06mm Layers High Quality.
I then make the following changes to that: 1st layer height 0.18mm. Infill density 40%. To save time I use the height range modifier function to increase the layer height for the timbers to 0.12mm, up to 0.4mm below the timber surface. Finishing the rest of the timber in 0.06mm layers gives crisper visible corners on the timbers. None of those changes affect the quality of the chairs.
(Sunlu PLA+2.0 filament in Oak Wood colour works equally well with the same settings, and Bambu filament setting, and is cheaper.)
Bambu A1 printer: Bambu Lab A1 | Multi-color 3D Printer
I can't answer for what happens if you use a different printer, different filament, different conditions, different settings.
For more information please ask on Templot Club forum.
cheers,
Martin (no connection with Bambu).
daifly
Western Thunderer
Thanks @martin_wynne.
All very useful info. I'm shortly going to print some S7 COT track bases for my entry in the S7 quest on my Bambu A1 (why do some owners insist on writing Bamboo?).
It will be interesting to see how well they work for me. Photos of my efforts will follow on here and I'll post some on Templot Club too. I might well experiment with CARROT turnouts too.
Dave
All very useful info. I'm shortly going to print some S7 COT track bases for my entry in the S7 quest on my Bambu A1 (why do some owners insist on writing Bamboo?).
It will be interesting to see how well they work for me. Photos of my efforts will follow on here and I'll post some on Templot Club too. I might well experiment with CARROT turnouts too.
Dave
David Mylchreest
Western Thunderer
Martin,
Thank you
Regards
Thank you
Regards
You will get even greater benefit if you break down the model into parts that can be printed in their optimal orientation.
The photo below illustrates the difference by trying to print detailed surfaces vertically and horizontally. In the top, vertical print, details are rounded with soft corners and poor geometry. The lower print has sharp detail, better surface finish and geometry, plus no supports spoiling the surface.
Bambu A1, 0.2mm nozzle, 0.05 layer height, top surface ironing with Elegoo PLA+
NewportRod
Western Thunderer
Dave
If I recall correctly the layer height was 0.1mm, but I printed it back in July so I might well been wrong.
And thanks to Martin, for so much of course, but in this case for the explanation of what the PVP glue-stick is for. I'd read about it several times elsewhere without the 'why' and was bewildered. It looks like I could I could have used some on the RH GBV above,
Rod
martin_wynne
Western Thunderer
@NewportRod
Hi Rod,
A few dabs on the print area while the plate is cold, then smear it out to a thin film with a damp sponge.
One application is good for several prints. Easily washed off with hot water.
But it must be PVP (polyvinylpyrrolidone) and not ordinary children's glue-stick. Amazon is cheaper than Bambu:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DJXZ58NR
Martin.
NewportRod
Western Thunderer
Thank you Martin, I'll get some on order.
Rod
Rod