4mm ExactoScale checkrail chairs.

[paratom]

I got talking to Tony Sullivan at the recent EM gauge AGM who was demonstrating track building. I asked him about the check rail chairs that ExactoScale supply that have a 0.8mm flangeway gap. Because they should have a 1mm gap he has to quickly cut them in half before the glue sets to widen the gap to 1mm. Is this a standard procedure if you are going to use them working to EM gauge standards? I have experimented 3D printing my own MR check rail chair to the right gap but would rather use the ExactoScale ones if I can get away without having to split them. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Tom

 

[Ian N]

I got talking to Tony Sullivan at the recent EM gauge AGM who was demonstrating track building. I asked him about the check rail chairs that ExactoScale supply that have a 0.8mm flangeway gap. Because they should have a 1mm gap he has to quickly cut them in half before the glue sets to widen the gap to 1mm. Is this a standard procedure if you are going to use them working to EM gauge standards? I have experimented 3D printing my own MR check rail chair to the right gap but would rather use the ExactoScale ones if I can get away without having to split them. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Tom

Hi Tom
the way I use Exactoscale check rail chair in EM is to cut them through the base where one rail fits, so you end up with a single 1/2 chair and 1&a bit chairs. ( a "threadable" chair and a "cosmetic" 1/2 chair) . For standard point check rails, i would use two of the threadable chairs on the checkrail, the running rail getting the majority. Fo longer point check rails I'll add more along the length of the check rail to prevent the gap closing. I'd probably do the same for "sharp curve" checkrails. On the basis that a photo says a thousand words, I don't think I have any that show the above, but here's one of how i use them, which might help
edit to add 2nd photo

 

[Jim smith-wright]

Just for my own curiosity since exactoscale do P4 checkrail chairs at 0.68mm and you guys are saying that 1mm is the EM standard where has the 0.8 clearance come from that exactoscale are using?

 

[paratom]

Just for my own curiosity since exactoscale do P4 checkrail chairs at 0.68mm and you guys are saying that 1mm is the EM standard where has the 0.8 clearance come from that exactoscale are using?

A good question that maybe someone can answer. I think Ian's answer seems like a better way of doing it but as I have never attempted to build point work I'm just going by what people have said. I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say.

Tom

 

[Overseer]

Just for my own curiosity since exactoscale do P4 checkrail chairs at 0.68mm and you guys are saying that 1mm is the EM standard where has the 0.8 clearance come from that exactoscale are using?

Interesting question, or maybe the question should be what’s happened to the EM standards. I use 16.5mm back to back for my HO 5’3” broad gauge, which I think is standard for EM, with 0.8mm flangeways. 16.5 + 1.6 = 18.1mm so 18.2 with a little slack and build my track to 18.3mm gauge so a little more. I use RP25 code 88 wheels (to the standard not the semi scale wheels with fat code 110 sized flanges). It sounds like ‘EM’ modellers are using a narrower back to back to allow regauged rtr wheels to be accommodated. Can’t be good for smooth running through crossings having differing flange widths and back to backs.

 

[PaxtonP4]

The gap of the check-rail chairs is what ever it is when the Check-gauge is established from the crossing nose.

If you use a fixed-gap chair that will then set the track-gauge at that point. If however you want a widened track-gauge at that point the flange-way will need to be increased to accommodate it. What you don't do is mess about with the check-gauge.

 

[Ian N]

Just for my own curiosity since exactoscale do P4 checkrail chairs at 0.68mm and you guys are saying that 1mm is the EM standard where has the 0.8 clearance come from that exactoscale are using?

Hi Jim
From the EMGS track standards, the crossing flangeway has 1mm clearance, and by ( hopefully correct) subtraction, the check rail clearance is 0.95mm. I suspect many EM modellers are content to work to 1mm for both.
The EMGS nominal standard for a point checkrail, on 18.2mm track is 17.25mm from inner edge of running rail to furthest edge ( nearest opp running rail) of the checkrail.
And the 0.8mm clearance? In theory it should work, either for EM points or for "gap widened" P4 checkrails on sharp curves. I think Exactoscale used to market them as suitable for EM.
However, some people prefer the simplicity of Romford-style EM axles, and when used with at least one Romford-style wheel, had a back to back measurement less than EMGS standard. Not being in the habit of buying these wheels, I can't comment on current or recent production.

hi Overseer
By default, I replace all rtr freight and coach stock wheels with Gibson for consistency, having learnt the hard way that regauging Lima wheels didn't stop the pizza cutter flanges bounce over sleepers! Locomotives are still on the to do list.
Kier Hardy has a good solution to Rtr loco flanges in his website EM Gauge Layouts, Models & Projects. But you do need the use of a lathe, and possibly a little courage until familiar with the process.
Dave Franks on his Wharfside layout uses a very consistent choice in wheels, but increases the back to back very slightly and gets superb running as can be seen in his party piece videos of high speed propelling through pointwork. I'm pretty sure he doesn't change track standards, just reduces the amount of lateral move the wheel set has.

 

[Dog Star]

Up front let me say that I make track to S7 standards and that I have never made track for any 4mm scale layout... so why am I contributing to this topic? Easy, because I often visited Len Newman to talk about what I was doing at the time and, of more relevance, what Len was doing. I recall one conversation, maybe ten years back, might be a tad longer, when Len was relating a recent conversation between him and Andrew Jukes about 4mm check chairs. As was so often the case with Len our conversation was both technical and political - such a mix seemed, to me, to reflect much of Len's interactions with the modelling world.

The relevance of Len's conversation with Andrew to this topic is that Len was being critical of Andrew's position on the flangeway for P4 checkchairs.... something along the line of "why be 100% prototypical when that does not work?". The result, as I recall, was that Len decided to do something his way - sorry, as per usual Len did not give the specifics.

So could Len have produced some P4 checkchairs with a wider flageway?

regards, Graham

 

[76043]

Having just looked at the EMGS members file on EM track, it states 1mm. Graham's answer above seems to be the answer, it's nothing to do with EM.
Tony

 

[PaxtonP4]

Having just looked at the EMGS members file on EM track, it states 1mm. Graham's answer above seems to be the answer, it's nothing to do with EM.
Tony

Correct - the "flangeway gap" at the crossing check rail is what ever it is after you have set the Check-gauge and set your desired Track-gauge through the crossing. There is no "Proper" flange way at the crossing check rail.

 

[Dave F.]

Dave Franks on his Wharfside layout uses a very consistent choice in wheels, but increases the back to back very slightly and gets superb running as can be seen in his party piece videos of high speed propelling through pointwork. I'm pretty sure he doesn't change track standards, just reduces the amount of lateral move the wheel set has.

As Ian says I use only Gibson wheels for the rolling stock and set them to 16.65 back to back as I feel that modern fine flanges can do with altering compared to the Romford/Markits wheels on which the EMGS standards are set. The flangeways on the points are made to about 0.9mm using the same set of gauges that I know and trust, not all gauges are quite the same in my experience.
The 'party piece' on Wharfeside that Ian refers to:-

The locos too have 16.65 B2B but new axles have to be made for the extra 0.15mm, I have had to make new axles for some wheels anyway due to the supplied axles being too short even for 16.5 B2B....
Dave Franks