7mm Mk1 castings

Dikitriki

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
What do you use to glue the end plates to the rubber corridor connections and the corridor connections to the cast ends?

Richard
 
28ten

28ten

Guv'nor
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Cynric, you have provided some photos of parts which come with JLTRT Mk.1 kits. Which kits? I ask because I cannot see:-

a) door handles;
b) guard's / luggage handles;
c) fittings for inside the Guard's office.

regards, Graham
 
28ten

28ten

Guv'nor
It is the general casting that comes with all of them. There might be some other handles in there somewhere ill have a look.
The guards is an SDK available separately

In line for replacement so far are the vac cylinders, train alarm, and possibly the vents (i need to check). The battery boxes need a bit of cleaning up and if the resin ones look acceptable i'll use them for the sake of speed.
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
To add to the story... here is the content of the fittings kit for the EZB BFK. The photo does not include either the etches (see the EZB web-site for details and photo of etch layout - in the instructions) or the corridor connections.

EZB BFK fittings.jpg

Top row - the bogie bearing plate and screw (LHS) and roof retaining nut and screw (RHS).

Centre row - vac cyl with integral trunnion plus DA valve (LHS), buffers (centre) and dynamo (RHS).

Bottom row - battery boxes/fuse box/regulator (LHS), roof vents/water fillers (centre) and door handles (RHS)

Quite a few differences to the JLTRT fittings - looks like a case of "which is best?".


Anyone any idea as to a supplier of vents which are not solid under the cover?

regards, Graham
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
28ten said:
I'd rather have mine than yours!
Click to expand...
Clearly - the question is... what can be done with an EZB kit at £100 against a JLTRT kit at around £220-240.

To be fair, the MMP kit can, with time, effort and skill, produce the bees knees in terms of a Mk.1 carriage with BR1 bogies. In my case I do not consider that I have the skill to do justice to the MMP Mk.1 kits... and I do want B4 and Commonwealth bogies. So the EZB kits represent an opportunity to build Ml.1 carriages to a form suitable for the 1980s.
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
28ten said:
In line for replacement so far are the vac cylinders, train alarm, and possibly the vents... The battery boxes need a bit of cleaning up and if the resin ones look acceptable i'll use them for the sake of speed.
Click to expand...

I agree about the JLTRT vac cyls., Brian Daniels (over there) has written that the correct vac-cyl casting for Mk.1 carriages can be found in the Mk.1 BG kit (or was that Mk1. GUV kit?). Brian says that he advised Laurie of the desirability of changing the Mk.1 packing list. Maybe you ought to try Laurie before looking elsewhere. I think that the EZB vac cyl is usable although I think that the cast-in trunnions needs removal... and replacement by the JLTRT cast version.

Brian Daniels has replaced the JLTRT passenger emergency communication cord fittings with parts supplied by CPL (available at the Reading Trade Show). If you are going for a number of sets then calling Pat might be worthwhile.

Interesting that we agree on the vents. There were several styles fitted to Mk.1s over the years... shown in Parkin. I think that some research is required into suppliers and prototype styles is necessary. For example:- just when did the different types of vents come into use / fall out of favour?

I think that we shall stick with the EZB buffers as our carriages will be run with raised buck-eye couplings. On the other hand, I like the look of the JLTRT water tank tops. The JLTRT dynamo / bracket looks better than the EZB version.

Maybe other Mk.1 enthusiasts might like to offer opinions... especially with regard to the battery boxes, regulator, fuse box and other electrical equipment?

regards, Graham
 
D

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Dog Star said:
Clearly - the question is... what can be done with an EZB kit at £100 against a JLTRT kit at around £220-240.

To be fair, the MMP kit can, with time, effort and skill, produce the bees knees in terms of a Mk.1 carriage with BR1 bogies. In my case I do not consider that I have the skill to do justice to the MMP Mk.1 kits... and I do want B4 and Commonwealth bogies. So the EZB kits represent an opportunity to build Ml.1 carriages to a form suitable for the 1980s.
Click to expand...

Just to say [as it does not say it on our web site]! - we can supply any of our Mk.1 kits WITHOUT our bogies for £40.00 discount so you can fit another type. Obviously you may have to mod. the replacement bogies' stretchers to acheive the correct ride height.

David Parkins,
Modern Motive Power
 
Bob Reid

Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
Putting the MMP kits aside for moment Graham, without a doubt the better of the two sets of castings are those supplied by JLTRT. The problem for them both though is attempting to provide a single set of castings for what were multiples of variants. I've found that at least with JLTRT some attempt is made a adding for example some detail to otherwise oddly shaped pieces of brass etc. in an effort to give a reasonable interpretation.

As far as details goes, it's a classic case of if you wanted to get to there you wouldn't start from here. Not having built one I can't quote with any authority however it's clear if you really wanted to get to there, and time as with an element of skill wasn't an issue you would start with the MMP kits. Not every variant is covered withing the MMP kits - it would be unreasonable to expect to see every constructional change covered however you would at least be setting of from a far better starting position.

As for the differences in roof ventilator - there were three basic types - here's the shortened version of a reply I made to a similar question on the BR Coaching Stock (Yahoo) Group...


Three basic styles were used as the “standard” for new build vehicles, and these were introduced as follows;

JANUARY 1950 – Original design introduced - Cast Iron Ventilator

For the roof ventilation on first new standard carriages, the British Transport Commission settled on a new design of “torpedo” roof ventilator. Unlike the traditional style used at sometime or other by all of the pre-nationalisation companies, it replaced the cone shaped centre, with a half circular dome, covered over with larger radius outer band. Air passed through the sides of the ventilator via a slot on the inner dome through the roof to the vehicle interior. When first fitted, it was manufactured in cast-iron.

OCTOBER 1952 – Replacement design introduced - Sheet Steel Ventilator

This was the archetypal Mark 1 sheet steel ‘Shell’ ventilator Introduced following the completion of the initial production orders, and was manufactured in-house by re-using the off-cuts from the production of the body panelling.

JULY 1958 – Original design re-introduced - Cast Iron Ventilator

First raised by the Eastern & North-Eastern Regions, in June 1958, it became evident across the regions that the sheet steel ventilators were prone to corrosion. In July 1958 the Coaching Stock Standards sub-committee (CSSC) recommended that the workshops reverted to the original design of Cast Iron ventilator for future new build stock, and from September, that once stocks of the sheet steel ventilator were exhausted, these would also be used to replace damaged or corroded sheet steel ventilators on the existing stock.

AUGUST 1960 – Modified Original Design Introduced - Cast Iron Ventilator

Re-introduction of the original design brought it’s own problems. In particular, the Scottish Region complained of ash and grit entering vehicles fitted with the original design of ventilator, in particular on their new RU vehicles. As a result. In July 1960, Eastleigh was instructed by the CSSC to amend the original design to SC/ES 295, to include an extended bonnet to cure the problem. This became the “standard” ventilator for future new build stock, and also to be used where the replacement of existing vehicle ventilators was required.

JULY 1963 – Modified Original Design (change of material) - Cast Aluminium Ventilator

Eastleigh brought to the CSSC a proposal for the modified original design ventilator produced in cast aluminium (a sample being produced by Bardic Ltd.). Given that the LM had already been supplying the ventilators in cast aluminium, and that there was a reduction in cost and savings in losses during handling at the works, the CSSC agreed that for future vehicles, all of the ventilators would be produced and supplied in Cast Aluminium. There was no obvious difference in size or shape, between those manufactured in cast-iron and these replacements in cast aluminium.
Click to expand...

I would add however that despite these change dates, running stocks down often took some time and there was a fair overlap in the use of each style.

Both of the sets of castings shown above are of the type first used in 1950-52 and again from 58-61 however if you access the files on the Yahoo group you'll find a fairly accurate list detailing from observations what vehicle lots were fitted with what type.

Bob.

p.s. Here's what the JLTRT/EZB vents should look like and a sectioned view showing the gap between the dome and the band covering it - I've not seen that detail in 7mm scale yet....

BR Toprpedo Vent.png

BR Torpedo Vent Cut.png
 
D

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Dog Star said:
David, there was no intention on my part to provoke such a reaction from you. You have made a decent offer and I thank you.
Click to expand...

Graham,

Fully understand. I just wanted to point out that the offer has always been there since both our ganwayed and non-corridor kits were released in 2006.

Its the same kind of reson we sell the interiors as a separate add-on as they are virually a second coach body kit turned outside-in and are ideal if you are lightning the coach. Not everyone will want that level of internal detail, say in stock that runs around a garden railway in daytime only.

For my own use I required a set of six Mk.1 suburbans that in winter would arrive in darkness and also stand in a platform for 30-40 minutes in winter evening light prior to their departure - making lighting essential - and with a lot of time to see what is inside!

Regards,

David
 
tomstaf

tomstaf

Western Thunderer
Bob-65B said:
As for the differences in roof ventilator - there were three basic types - here's the shortened version of a reply I made to a similar question on the BR Coaching Stock (Yahoo) Group...

Bob.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

That was all very helpful:thumbs: But, still being a bit clueless when it comes visually identifying them, can you tell what type this one is?

MK1 roof vent.jpg

Cheers

Tom
 
Bob Reid

Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
It's the hooded August 60' on- version of the one shown in the images above - they re-designed the hood to extend it down over the sides.... and the last style of mk1 roof ventilator of the three used....

Bob.

p.s. Tomorrow evening I'll post on a seperate thread images of all three types if it'll help.
 
tomstaf

tomstaf

Western Thunderer
Bob-65B said:
It's the hooded August 60' on- version of the one shown in the images above - they re-designed the hood to extend it down over the sides.... and the last style of mk1 roof ventilator of the three used....

Bob.

p.s. Tomorrow evening I'll post on a seperate thread images of all three types if it'll help.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bob,

Posting the separate types would be great. If you could do one for roe-vac vents on the MK2s and MK3s too that'd be even better:)

Cheers

Tom
 
tomstaf

tomstaf

Western Thunderer
Bob-65B said:
It's the hooded August 60' on- version of the one shown in the images above - they re-designed the hood to extend it down over the sides.... and the last style of mk1 roof ventilator of the three used....

Bob.

p.s. Tomorrow evening I'll post on a seperate thread images of all three types if it'll help.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

Do you know the metric dia of the last type of roof vent please?

Cheers

Tom
 
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