7mm Stanier 3P 2-6-2

[P A D]

Thanks Duncan and Larry for the photos.

Leaving the rods for now I first rolled and soldered up the smokebox. There are two rings on the etch, one plain and one with rivet detail that needs punching. I'm not sure if Mike Edge intended the plain ring to go in the rear of the smokebox, but I decided to fit it inside and flush with the front edge. The riveted ring had the edge rounded before punching the rivets and overlaying onto the other ring. At the rear I added a strip of waste fret to locate the boiler.


This front view shows the strip of waste fret used to beef up the seam.


I made a copy of the boiler template and then marked the centre line and position of the top feed, dome and wash out plugs. Here the centre lind is marked with the other details still to be added. It was then cut out and pasted to 10 thou nickel silver sheet, where the centre line and other details were transferred to the metal before cutting.


The boiler was cut out using a mixture of scrawker and piercing saw and finished off with the file. Before rolling, I scribed the centre line to represent the cladding seam and punched some rivets to represent the fixing screws. Although I agree with Adrian that softer grade NS would be easier to roll, I didn't have any problems with it being half hard and more springy. However, if took a bit of faffing to get the taper correct using parallel rolling bars. Here it is push fit onto the smokebox. It won't be soldered until later in the build in case any adjustments need to be made to get it to sit right.


Looks good so far.


A quick trial with a dome from the spares box looks promising.


One issue I did encounter was that the circumference of the boiler was about a mm too short. I could have made another one but decided a quicker option was to add a filling piece. A straight length of waste fret about 3mm wide of the right thickness was used for this. First I clamped it lengthways in the vice to hold it still and vertical. The was boiler was then placed over the strip and held tight against it either side and tack soldered each end. When I was happy that is was aligned correctly, the whole seam was soldered either side of the strip. I then removed the excess metal on the outside of the seam with a cutting disc and tidied up with files and emery paper. Here's a view of the seam showing the infill.


With the boiler done for now, I finished off the other coupling rod. I wasn't happy with the filed down nut used to represent the fixing for the joint on the completed rod, so I removed it and knocked up something from a 10 BA cheese head bolt in the lathe.


A start has been made on the frames, with the decusping done and the bearing holes prepared. There are parts to make a compensated chassis, but I'm going with my favoured fixed front and rear axles, with the middle one allowed some up and down movement.


I should have the wheels from Slaters tomorrow, so all being well, I may have the chassis rolling by then.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

Well hats off to Slaters. The wheels were ordered yesterday and arrived this morning, so on with the chassis.
Here's one of the frames laid on Mike's drawing. As can be seen, the position of the slot for the rear pony mount is too far back. Mike did point this out to me, along with one or two other slight errors.


Easy enough to correct though, by simply filing an indent into the edge of the spacer either side. It needs to be about half the width and here it is ready for fitting.

The chassis and spacers were assembled in the jig with the pony mounts slotted in afterwards.

Here you can see ghd rear pony mount slid forward in the slots to set the mounting hole in the correct position. I don't mind etched springs but these are just a single etch so will be replaced when I can source some suitable castings.


And after removing from the jig.


To avoid the need for washers on the fixed axles, the bearings have been spaced before soldering to center the axles. I will allow some sideplay on the centre sprung axle, but have yet to elongate the bearing holes.


And some shots with the wheels in.




I've yet to source a motor and gearbox, but the intention is to have it on the centre axle.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

The next job was to drill out and tap the crankpin bushes to 10BA and tap the crankpin holes in the wheels to accept 10BA bolts. To ensure clearance behind the slidebars, the front top hat bush has been fitted in reverse to give a flush fitting in the coupling rod boss. Holes were drilled in the flange to allow tightening with a pair of tweezers.


A smooth running chassis was achieved without any additional fettling, which is always a good indication that the designer knows his stuff. Sure you have to build it correctly, but if rod and chassis holes don't match it will bind. This is the first Mike Edge kit I've built but the Judith Edge range have a very good reputation, so it's no more than I expected.

The design is very simple and straight forward with plain spacers but builds up easily and squarely. I like the half etch locations on the inside of the frames for locating the spacers which all fit nicely, apart from the rear one, which was easy to correct. If this had been produced for sale as a kit, no doubt that would have been corrected on the artwork.


Next the cylinders. Here are the parts prepared for soldering.

To space the front and rear plates correctly and squarely, I jigged them up with M4 bolts and nuts, using calipers to set the gap. They were checked on a glass plate and adjusted to ensure no rocking before tightening the outer nuts.


And a quick trial in the frames. As usual, I intend to make the cylinders and valve gear removable as a unit.


Getting back to Adrian's point about the hardness of the NS, a softer grade would be much better for the cylinder wrappers. As it is I decided to anneal them to facilitate the forming. After soldering the first one, starting at the bottom inner edge up to the shoulder, the bolts can then be removed, before making the final curve and completing the soldering.


Here's the completed unit.


And in the frames.


The ashpan side parts had to be cut to fit them, as Mike had designed them to be fitted before assembling the frames and there was now a spacer in the way. No bother, but I'll need to add some metal behind the lightening holes to represent the the lower firebox sides. I've also added a bottom piece made from spare metal from the boiler sheet.


Finally, I added the support brackets for the running plate.






Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

It's a bit early in the build to make a comparison, but here's a shot with the Chowbent Fowler version that I built many moons ago.


It was a nice kit to build and if I recall correctly, the castings were all brass and nickel silver. One issue though, was that the milled rods did not match the chassis and the rear axles holes in the frames had to be moved slightly. At the time it was only my third or forth build, so it was a bit stressful. Still it worked out fine in the end and it is a very good runner.


I spoke to Ian Young at Sanspareil the other day to order some castings for the pony truck springs and he told me that he did the brass castings for both the Fowler and Stanier kits for Chowbent. He's checking what moulds he has and will let me know.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[LarryG]

That Chowbent 'Breadvan' is a lovely model. What minimum radius curve do you build to?

A gentle nudge here.......When painting the latest 2-6-2T, the top section of the front bufferbeam should be black.

 

[P A D]

Thanks Larry.

Should it be the same on the Fowler do you know? Easy enough to paint it black with a brush. The buffer beams need weathering anyway as Mick or me never got around to it.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

That Chowbent 'Breadvan' is a lovely model. What minimum radius curve do you build to?

A gentle nudge here.......When painting the latest 2-6-2T, the top section of the front bufferbeam should be black.

Sorry Larry,
I didn't answer your question. Nominally, 6 foot. Everything I've built has negotiated 6 foot including Pacifics. The Fowler 3P will go around less than that, but I've never checked the minimum. Some of the 0 6 0s will go through the 4 ft into the cattle dock, but don't really need to. The GCR 11F did it no bother, but then it's only a 4 4 0.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[LarryG]

The nickname 'Breadvan' applied to Fowler 2-6-2T's in the North West. The Hughes 'Crab' and all Fowler locos with 'double' bufferbeams had the top part painted body colour instead of red. Some if not all Scots had all-red bufferbeams after the war and in BR days.

Thanks for the gen on your locos + minimum radius.

 

[P A D]

Only had a short session at the bench yesterday so not much progress. Bloody Christmas commitments getting in the the way. Ba humbug etc!

Anyway, I managed to decusp the hanging plates and three running plate sections and tack solder them together. The front and rear sections have half etch lines on the underside to aid forming and I got the rear one done OK, but had to anneal the front one after forming to adjust the fit.


I started with the rear section and worked forward.



A quick trial on the frames suggests all is well.




Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

Hi all,

I need to source some cast driving wheel springs to replace the etched ones on the 3P frames. I'm pretty sure the 8F springs in the MOK kit are very close and I can source these from Sanspareil. Can anybody who has the MOK 8f please measure the length between the spring hanger centres. On the 3P it was 3' 11 1/2".

Many thanks,
Peter

 

[LarryG]

You will need full-fat springs (and decent axlebox bearings!!!) These locos were heavy on both! Merry X.

 

[Dave Holt]

Peter,
8F spring hanger centres were 3'-6", according to the official drawings.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

Peter,
A bit more checking shows that Black 5's and Crabs also had 3'-6" centres and the Fowler 2-6-4 tanks had 3'-3" spring hanger centres. Original Scots had 4'-0", but they are much larger locos with bigger diameter wheels. On balance, for smallish locos like the Class 3 tank, it looks as if your estimated 3'-11 1/2" is a bit on the long side.
Looks like a nice model in the making.
Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.
Dave.

 

[P A D]

Many thanks Dave.

The drawing shows 1ft 11-3/4" from spring centre to hanger centres. Maybe that's why they were such poor performers - the springs were too heavy!

The MOK 8F springs have the right hangers and fixings as far as I can see, so I'll go with those. They'll look much better than the single etch so it's either that or scratch build, or add extra laminates and spend a week filing them.

This is a crop from a photo of the drawing.


These are the Sanspareil springs from Warren Shephards website.


He does some nice cylinder draincocks which are correct for the 3P also.



Once Ian Young at Sanspareil let's me know what castings he can supply I'll start ordering some parts.

All the best.
Peter

 

[P A D]

The running plate, valances and buffer beams are now all soldered up and the cover plates upper frames pieces added. There are no grooves to aid locating the frames, so I used a cocktail stick to hold them in place for soldering.


A little fettling of the frames was needed to get the running plate to sit down, but nothing untoward.





And a view from the underside.

I couldn't resist a quick comparison with the 4P.


The main superstructure parts have been decusp and the rivets punched read for fitting. Th missed rivet on the bunker rear has since been punched.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[JohnG]

Great work as ever Peter, looking forward to more in 2020. HNY John

 

[Duncan Chandler]

looks lovely Peter, your doing one that did not get the strengthening strip on the bunker then?

 

[P A D]

Many thanks John. And the same to you.

And thanks to you Duncan,
For now I'm going without the strengthening strip. However, I need to check my reference works to see which locos were fitted with it and when. I can always add it later. In any case, it will be built with separate top feed and dome and without the curly breather pipes on the tanks. If you have any information on the fitting of the strengthening strips, please let me know.

Progress was slow this afternoon as I had no suitable cast lamp irons for the bunker rear and had to make some. I made a bit of a bollards of the first set when I slipped with the file and had to start again. Enough said.

Anyway, strengthening strip aside, I added the detail to the bunker rear. The holes for the grab rails were a little on the large side for 0.6mm wire, so I added a strip of waste etch across the holes on the inside and drilled through. The handrail is 0.7mm wire.


And to complete a rather fruitless session I got the cab side window beading on. I gave the outer faces a rub down with a soft backed nail buffer to round them off a bit. It works better if you can do it in situ, but that's not possible in this case due to the proximity of the rivets.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

My intention is to get as much detail as possible in position inside the cab, before soldering the superstructure onto the running plate. I started at the rear by making some side pieces for shovel plate bulkhead to allow me to solder it squarely to the cab rear. I'm not modelling the bunker so only the end of the shoveling plate is needed.


Although I've got photos of some of the GA drawings, Duncan Chandler's drawing and the photo posted by Mickoo some time ago have been most useful. That's the locker etch on the drawing after cutting it to separate it into the upper and lower lockers.


And the photo posted by Mickoo.


As can be seen in this image, the etchings show a different type of coal plate and provide both closed and open options for the door. The locker is well under way at this stage although only placed for the photo. Note that the lower small locker is offset to one side to allow clearance for the hand brake.


Here the locker has had the hinges added and a start made on the coal doors.


Here most of the detail is in place. The hinges and fastenings were added to the locker and coal doors before fitting them to the bulkhead. I found two Griffin lamp iron castings so didn't have to make them this time. These were added first, then the lockers and finally the breather pipes. After fitting the coal doors a start has been made on the brake standard, using brass tube and section, plus wire and a 14BA cheesehead screw for the handle. Further detail will be added to the support bracket.


This view from the side shows the two right angle bends in the NS rod for the breather pipes. To facilitate that, I had to file two V grooves in the rod with a square file, then anneal before making the bends. The kink at the bottom also required annealing and I have still to add the brackets at the top.


These cruel close ups show all the excess solder around the details, but it's much better to the naked eye. To retain my sanity, I decided to ignore the rivet detail, but will be adding the water valves etc along with the slacking pipe and oil boxes.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[Duncan Chandler]

Glad the drawings have proved usefull