7mm 7mm track options

[Pencarrow]

Hi all,

Talking to a friend who has recently started planning a 0 gauge layout (not S7) and got talking about track options. The layout wouldn't be that large and probably only around 6 or so turnouts.

Having built my track a few years ago I feel a bit out of touch about what options there are now, and what to recommend.

Obviously we have Peco RTR at one end but he's not keen on the look, wheel drop and price of their units.

At the other end you have track built up from individual parts, such as the C&L system. Significantly better appearance, but also now much more expensive than a few years back, especially if you go for the pre-formed Vs and crossings.

I've seen that Greenwood do kits based on laser cut timbers and pre-formed parts. These seem a good midway option, lower cost than C&L but can be a bit tricky to obtain...

Are there any other systems or options that I've missed, preferably those that used solvent rather than solder, and don't need Vs, crossings and blades forming?

 

[simond]

As we were discussing in the Templot thread, DIY using Templot Plug Track or COT seems to me to be the obvious choice. Templot is probably the only practical way to generate prototypical formations, though proper drafting techniques, and track manuals, are available if your pal is determined to do in the hardest way possible!

Peco works reliably but is expensive and the geometry is unprototypical, Marcway similarly, maybe cheaper, very wide range of formations and custom possible, but not, perhaps as good appearance-wise. C&L stuff is known and proven, looks good, and can use ready-printed templates, or Templot as a design guide. Other DIY solutions - mainly copperclad or ply & rivet solutions also available. Cosmetic considerations to be taken into account.

Templot COT is very new, but is relatively cheap, providing he is prepared to invest in a printer, and learn how to use it.

Filing rails to make blades and closures is the same in any of the DIY approaches & COT, and is not difficult. Gauges and jigs are available. It requires a decent sharp file, a solid vice, and a little practice, all of which are reasonably cheap. I would not consider buying pre-made crossings or blades, as it’s just not economically worth it. If in doubt, beg or buy a length of rail, and try. Good investment of a couple of quid. If not happy with the COT approach, the cut & filed rails will work on a Templot-generated plan with C&L components as a fall back.

On any given layout, obviously all techniques can be mixed, might be necessary to do this if you want COT, and a double slip!

YMMV!

HTH

Simon

 

[Bill Campbell]

Hi Chris

If your friend wishes to build his own track and/or turnouts then Templot for layout design.

Track and turnouts - Peco timbering and chairs are much cheaper than ready built turnouts - readily available from Gaugemaster.

Ply sleepers and timbering strips are available from Intentio:

Sleepers & Track

www.intentio.shop

Injection moulded chairs and rail are available from Phoenix Precision:

Trackwork Products

Trackwork Products

www.phoenix-paints.co.uk

Regards.

 

[Mark F]

After seeing the Templot plug track demo at Scaleforum I'm seriously tempted by this as a way forward for my future projects (in 4mm scale in my case), despite the fact I have a reasonable amount of Exactoscale components in stock. I guess it depends on where on the scale of (near) instant gratification (Peco) to making everything yourself you want to position yourself. Builder or operator?

 

[Hayfield1]

I have always advocated building your own turnouts, mostly because you can build in added detail, and depending how you buy materials there can be a good saving. I think if you plan to build a layout in 7mm scale even if its a small one you are in for several £100's unless you are lucky to find some good value and quality second hand items. As Mark F has said the quality of the printing is excellent

In 7mm scale the price difference is enormous, depending on how much you pay for both filament/resin and rail My basic cost for the B7 was around £10.00. Plug track is available and one member of Templot club is happy to provide laser cut bases and resin printed chairs.

At the moment with both plug and COT track any turnouts under B7 will have to have equalized timbering rather than in line with the straight road, soon with COT Track this will alter.

Anyone with a 3D printer can have a go at printing, its free to use software (though Martin would appreciate the odd donation to help with the upkeep of Templot Club) and joining in with Templot club is also free, and like here is a friendly forum.

With COT track we are still experimenting, there is a modification to the fitting of the wing rails which will be available at some point in the future, which will make life very much easier. Longer off will be obtuse chairs (for diamond crossings) but as with plug track the system moves on and changes

It was suggested that I could act as the first point of contact on Templot Club for COT track, for technical questions I may well have to pass the question upwards, but I am happy to try and answer the basic stuff. Simply to give Martin the time to carry on doing what he enjoys, experimenting

 

[Dog Star]

Please do not forget that Slaters offers the basic materials and often cheaper than using C&L.

 

[martin_wynne]

Filing rails to make blades and closures is the same in any of the DIY approaches & COT, and is not difficult. Gauges and jigs are available.

@Hayfield1

Just to add that once you have an FDM printer, you can 3D-print filing jigs at very low cost, typically a couple of pounds each for materials, using 3D files from Templot (free). If you go for Templot COT track or plug track, you don't need track gauges either. The savings go a long way towards the cost of a suitable FDM printer:

123-3D.co.uk - 3D-printers | kits | parts | filament

(no connection)

Lots of advice on using that printer on the Templot Club forum, several Templot users have one of them.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[martin_wynne]

On any given layout, obviously all techniques can be mixed, might be necessary to do this if you want COT, and a double slip!

@simond

Hi Simon,

I'm hoping to have got that far with COT within the next 12 months. Where it is not possible to slide rails into position, they will plug into place, using slide-on plug-in chairs (FDM printed).

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Dog Star]

Martin and John (@martin_wynne , @Hayfield1 ),

What are your thoughts on printing resin sleepers / timbers with keyless chairs? I acknowledge that current Templot developments appear to make such a query not necessary... I am interested in your views on that suggestion for those of us who model pre-1900 GWR track in S7 and who have reasonable experience in printing 3DP chairs and separate keys.

Rgds, Graham

 

[Pencarrow]

I should add that I did build my own track for Pencarrow, including filing all the blades and Vs etc. Plus I fitted 3d printed special chairs and tarty tie bars. So I'm not adverse to this myself.

The question came from a friend re-entering the hobby, with limited experience, but knowing enough about the prototype to not like the Peco offering. At this time I'm trying to give a few pointers of alternative options.

I'd forgotten Marcway, but that was probably as I was never keen on the visual appearance of rails soldered flat to sleepers in 4mm, let alone 7mm.

With all the new 3d printing and laser cutting options being developed, it's an interesting time to be looking at track. A gap at the moment seems to be someone or a company you can send your requirements to and they send you the bespoke 3d/laser cut parts.

 

[Hayfield1]

I do like a challenge and remembering a zoom meeting we had a while ago and at that time it went right over my head (and still way above my paygrade) and the comments in the dining room. Not forgetting that in every other track building method in one way or another even the best track builders have to fudge at least one area if not more when building a simple turnout yet alone something more complicated due to lack of parts.

I thought the naughty step has been empty for a while, so I would have a go and do an experiment to see how far I could get with a diamond crossover. The automated system stops when it gets to the obtuse crossing chairs



Here is my attempt, somehow I am missing 4 check rail chairs, for some unknown (to me) reason they have not printed,
We know the common crossings work, and until we have some upgrades threading the wing rails is a faff and I expect so will threading the rails through the obtuse crossing chairs.

With the exception of "Off The Rails" which is unavailable at the moment through Shapeways, there are no commercial parts in 7mm available to get this far.
I will print both ends of this diamond and as well as finding out my errors I will think about how to proceed with the build. Its an experiment the basics are there. One solution is to do the center part in plug track

 

[Pencarrow]

I do like a challenge and remembering a zoom meeting we had a while ago and at that time it went right over my head (and still way above my paygrade) and the comments in the dining room. Not forgetting that in every other track building method in one way or another even the best track builders have to fudge at least one area if not more when building a simple turnout yet alone something more complicated due to lack of parts.

I thought the naughty step has been empty for a while, so I would have a go and do an experiment to see how far I could get with a diamond crossover. The automated system stops when it gets to the obtuse crossing chairs

View attachment 224746

Here is my attempt, somehow I am missing 4 check rail chairs, for some unknown (to me) reason they have not printed,
We know the common crossings work, and until we have some upgrades threading the wing rails is a faff and I expect so will threading the rails through the obtuse crossing chairs.

With the exception of "Off The Rails" which is unavailable at the moment through Shapeways, there are no commercial parts in 7mm available to get this far.
I will print both ends of this diamond and as well as finding out my errors I will think about how to proceed with the build. Its an experiment the basics are there. One solution is to do the center part in plug track

It was the "off the rails" parts I used. Nicely detailed but the shapeways resin was quite brittle.

 

[Hayfield1]

Martin and John (@martin_wynne , @Hayfield1 ),

What are your thoughts on printing resin sleepers / timbers with keyless chairs? I acknowledge that current Templot developments appear to make such a query not necessary... I am interested in your views on that suggestion for those of us who model pre-1900 GWR track in S7 and who have reasonable experience in printing 3DP chairs and separate keys.

Rgds, Graham

Graham

I have no idea about resin timbers, but FDM or Ply are much easier materials to work with ( with FDM no washing, curing, ultraviolet light issues or mess)

Seemingly its just as easy to print in FDM as resin, but nothing wrong with resin (plug) chairs in FDM bases, but when you can print chairs on timbers why bother, as for separate keys, to me it sounds a lot of work

As for Scale 7 its one of the default gauges

 

[martin_wynne]

Martin and John (@martin_wynne , @Hayfield1 ),

What are your thoughts on printing resin sleepers / timbers with keyless chairs? I acknowledge that current Templot developments appear to make such a query not necessary... I am interested in your views on that suggestion for those of us who model pre-1900 GWR track in S7 and who have reasonable experience in printing 3DP chairs and separate keys.

Rgds, Graham

@Dog Star @Hayfield1

Hi Graham,

You have rather lost me there. I'm not keen on resin-printed timbers full stop. Whether they have chairs on them, and whether the chairs have keys, doesn't really come into it. With resin printed timbers it is difficult with the inexpensive home printers to control the shrinkage. Or at least, it has been for me after much experimenting. Timber thicknesses are inconsistent, bases curling and not flat, and no consistency of track gauge. Also the print area on the inexpensive printers is too small to create a useful size of track panel, except perhaps in 2mm scale.

The other options seem far preferable for timber bases -- FDM printed, laser-cut, or CNC milled:

Where the resin printer comes into its own is for the chairs. Below 7mm scale it is really the only option. For 7mm and above FDM-printed chairs are feasible (as in COT track), but the resin detail is better.

But Templot doesn't have much to offer you yet for GWR. I still have a long way to go to finish all the REA chairs. The only GWR chair likely in the near future is the 1950s Paddington 2-bolt version of the REA S1 chair.

If you want chairs without keys, in resin or FDM, you can just switch them off:





cheers,

Martin.

 

[simond]

I’m sure @martin_wynne will jump in, but I recall reading on the Templot forum that resin is not suitable for sleepers, timbers etc, due to its propensity to curl up after it’s taken off the build plate.

From personal experience, printing a motor bogie for a loco lead to the same issues.

As I post, I see he just did.

 

[martin_wynne]

Seemingly its just as easy to print in FDM as resin, but nothing wrong with resin (plug) chairs in FDM bases, but when you can print chairs on timbers why bother

@Hayfield1

Hi John,

If you print the chairs integral with the timbers (COT), the only way to assemble the track is to slide the rails in from the end. That's feasible for single turnouts, just about, but it won't work for complex formations such as a tandem turnout or an outside slip.

The solution is to mix integral chairs (COT) for most of the timbers, but use plug-in chairs for a few of them. So that the appropriate pieces of rail can be installed vertically after sliding the plug-in chairs onto them. The plug in chairs can be FDM or resin printed. However, if you want them with loose jaws for even easier assembly, it would have to be resin, and you then need thicker timbers.

I'm working on all these options as we speak. I'm hoping to release an update this week. As you know, "COT" track is a new idea only in the last month or so, after I moved up to tinkering with 7mm scale from 4mm. But integrating COT track into the existing plug track options has been no 5-minute task. That's why you haven't yet seen a screenshot of mixed sockets and COT chairs in the same brick -- but you will do in the next few hours. After that I have to sort out the timber and socket depths to match Peco flexible -- which means nothing to me but I know it's important for some.

cheers,

Martin.