4mm An EM Workbench: stock Swindon

[AJC]

Hi Graham,

I can't really answer the question about springing because, heathen that I am, I soldered the spring carriers in to produce a rigid wagon. I often do this because there's limited merit in springing a wagon with a wheelbase this short in EM and much associated hassle which I don't enjoy. In this case the clearances in so many areas are so tight, I wanted to reduce some of the variables that might get in the way of the thing running.* That said, 10 or 12 thou' sounds plausible, I think - it depends how much weight you add. The benefit of the system designed in - the spring carriers are similar to those Bill Bedford offers with his sprung W irons so you can change the gauge of the wire if you feel what you've fitted is not up to it.

Wheel spacing - an area where a bit of experimentation is probably needed. How many washers are needed to eliminate side play? You might find it easier to remove the axle keeps (do check if they're the right pattern - they're not for my later-era model) while you check that. I didn't find any washers were needed on my smaller version.

By 'end stanchions' in this context, I'm pretty certain that he means the T section reinforcement - I'm not sure whether this was an original fitting or something added when the sides were extended upwards. You may find, as I did, that the ends directly under the axle need the stem of the T ground away to allow free rotation of the axles. I'd be inclined to do that before fitting as a precaution: it's invisible and much easier to do at that point.

We're due an update on mine - I'm at the point where the last outstanding jobs are the vac' pipes and explaining why I've left most of the linkages off. Not easy on this one because they're quite visible...

Hope that helps?

Adam

* In 4mm, the tail of the spring is also expected to sit and survive in service in a rib supporting the hopper made from half etched brass sheet about 5 thou' thick. That's not tenable.

 

[AJC]

So here we are, almost all hot operations complete barring the upright vac' pipes which I think I'll have to make up from scratch. They're not a complicated shape but modifying a whitemetal one is likely to result in meltdown. Note the 'modern' pattern of kickstep, replacing the rather pretty, but I imagine a bit delicate, steps on a bit of rod Victorian version. The safety loops ended up mounted as I imagine the real thing was, attached to the hopper tierods: I'm sure Swindon did something more sophisticated than a blob of solder. Oh, and I've added journal reinforcements, tweaked from some Rumney Models spares.





So, vac' pipes, a variety of plates, a bit of filler, buffers, couplings, primer and transfer rivets and we're good to go. Hopefully the next etched thing I do will be a bit simpler.

Adam

 

[AJC]

An important moment, the wagon is almost complete and treated to a coat of etch primer. I have to make and add some axle keeps (they're tricky shape which I know I can make easily in plastic but would be a pain in brass) and add a few transfer rivets before a second coat of (normal) primer and top coat of all over black. The wheels still go round!

The white blotch is exposed Milliput - the etched panel lines were more prominent than I'd like.



Adam

 

[Dog Star]

I am not often moved to comment on a photo of a model after clicking the "like" button, I shall make an exception in this case because I appreciate that this kit is difficult and complex to build as a consequence of the prototype and kit design - well done Adam (especially as my appreciation of the kit of parts relates to the 7mm version and you have built the 4mm kit).

regards, Graham

 

[AJC]

Thank you, Graham. It's a challenging kit of a difficult prototype and I'm pleased that what is left to do are things that I am comfortable with: minor details and painting. It was a Christmas present from my in-laws last year and hopefully I'll have that phase done by Christmas this year which would be neat. I have certainly had their money's worth.

I have plans for another vintage ballast hopper but that should be much more straightforward, but for that you'll have to wait and see.

Adam

 

[AJC]

And now for something completely different. In 1911, the SE&CR acquired its first ballast hoppers supplementing its traditional flat bottomed, low-sided opens which, nonetheless, lasted in some numbers into the 1960s. These were curious things with three chutes to unload the ballast (just the one bottom door on the GWR P7) designed to be operated from track level and rightly reckoned to be sub-optimal from the user's point of view especially when the wagons were - as designed - unloaded in motion. In 1915 they added another train's worth of similar hoppers of 21T capacity with the operating wheels moved upward and a platform provided for the operator. Construction was by the Leeds Forge Co., and they seem to have been at least partially responsible for the design since they some very similar vehicles to others until their closure in 1929.* This sensible and much-safer set of features was later adopted by the SR on their later bogie hoppers but, through Leeds Forge's successor, Cammell Laird (later Met Camm), more very similar 4-wheeled vehicles were built for the LMS and LNER and by BR as the Catfish and Dogfish . Characteristic Swindon conservatism saw them get Met Camm to build their P22 design when the same company had a superior vehicle available for thirty-five years...


Image from Bixley, et al, An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons vol. 3 and used here for illustrative purposes.

Hornby, of course, have offered a moulded plastic version of the Trout and since examples of the second batch of SE&CR hoppers lasted into the '60s and there are pictures at Meldon which is the right end of the SR for me how could I resist? Getting hold of one has proved a bit tricky but a kind donation from Mike Whitchurch has solved that and here we are. So apart from the lovely pressed steel side door the main difference is the capacity and the consequent height of the hopper, roughly 6" lower on these early relatives. From a modelling point of view the difficult bit is the door but I have a plan for that.



Here's the donor - sadly the nicely-moulded axlebox lettering has to go and the chutes are 2mm shorter than they should be (trainset wheels, but who can really tell), as do the buffers and bendy footsteps. Vacuum brakes and their associated fittings are to be added. About an hour's drastic surgery later...



... and that's where we are. No turning back.

Adam



*Vehicles to a very similar layout were supplied to London Transport by Glos C&W in the late '30s (The SVR and various other preservation outfits have these in preservation - London Transport ‘Herring’ Ballast Hopper Wagons - SVR Wiki - though the account of the design history is... eccentric/baloney/with a major chronological contradiction at its heart).

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

*Vehicles to a very similar layout were supplied to London Transport by Glos C&W in the late '30s (The SVR and various other preservation outfits have these in preservation - London Transport ‘Herring’ Ballast Hopper Wagons - SVR Wiki - though the account of the design history is... eccentric/baloney/with a major chronological contradiction at its heart).

Thier 'history' made me laugh though - just reveals the level of their non-GW research - new works to Potters Bar!

Furthermore, my LT books do not refer to a BR a telegraphic code as they refused to let them run on their metals due to their propensity to derail.

In my 4mm days I used the Heljan dogfish as a starting point for my LT HW. In effect taking a slice out of the botton half of the hopper and turning it around by 180 degrees. LT used prefixes followed by the vehicle number for their internal user stock i.e. A = Ash wagon, PH = Power house (coal) wagon, SL = Slurry wagon, HW = Hopper wagon, B = Brake van, BW = Ballast wagon, etc.



And the same approach for the 7mm version.

 

[AJC]

You're right, I shouldn't be too mean about the 'history', duff though it obviously is: the SVR have done more than almost anyone to maintain a fleet of historic wagon and carriage stock in good condition in a preservation context. It does ignore the input of suppliers in design work, however (most obvious in the English Electric 350HP design).

I like the Dogfish conversions very much, but I would, wouldn't I? The real things are fun, too. A nice example of a client going to a favoured manufacturer - clutching an ad' from Met Camm no doubt - and saying 'could we have something like that to fit our tunnels?'.

Adam

 

[AJC]

Back to the job in hand, making complicated pressed steel doors the hard way from layers of plastic.

These are 20 thou' hand cut and with one spare (one's bound to be a bit naff). Here we are from the front - quite tidy but lacking detail - and from the back (less so):





The back of the pressings need more relief and obviously some middles. Then time for a waft of primer to see whether it's worth carrying on. It's promising at this stage, but if I wanted more than one, 3D printing is the way to go.

Adam

 

[AJC]

Promising?



This is the inside face and looks in the right sot of area. Time for a coat of primer and a tidy up.

Adam

 

[AJC]

A quick update. The doors are primed and fitted and re-filled (the first pass wasn't bad, but better is better). I think it's worth carrying on so the next stop is a coat of grey primer and some transfer rivets before sorting out the door catches and other detail. The chassis hasn't been untouched, but new buffers and couplings aren't as exciting as all that...



The interior (more rivets needed along the top edge) and the exterior:



Adam

 

[AJC]

Something a bit more straightforward, a Christmas quickie. This is a BR single bolster, created from some of the contents of the spares box and some buffers ordered in error. A cut down Parkside chassis (just 15' 6" over headstocks) and some plastic sheet. The only other bought-in bits will be the bolster posts (Masokits), wheels, bearings and couplings. Yes, the solebars should be 10" rather than 9" but that's only 0.3mm out and I can live with that.*





Adam


*Dave Bradwell does what will surely be a very nice etched kit for these but time, money...

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The doors are primed and fitted and re-filled (the first pass wasn't bad, but better is better). I think it's worth carrying on so the next stop is a coat of grey primer and some transfer rivets before sorting out the door catches and other detail.

I think the doors look the part. Being scratchbuilt they have the 'in service' look about them.

 

[AJC]

Having finished titivating the hopper, I've made some tweaks to the chassis. The first one was to very carefully remove the brakeshoe mouldings with the tip of a scalpel. I then drilled out the hanger and stuck a bit of 0.45mm wire into the hole prior to drilling some new fixing holes in the chassis frame. Obviously as I work in EM this was to get them to line up with the wheels, but I'd have done this if it as staying in 00 so as to bring the shoes closer to the treads. Helpfully @hrmspaul has some useful detail pictures of the BR Trout which was more or less the same so I was able to base the brake yokes (Hornby have helpfully moulded holes in the back of the brake shoes) on those shown here: BR Trout ballast hopper ZFO (LNER type).

The distinctive safety loops will go on later, but the next critical bits were the hopper supports and here the drawing in SR Wagons vol. 3 were invaluable, but apart from the lightening holes are a fairly simple bit of plastic cutting. I've added a few other solebar details and there's a few more to go, but just roughly mocked up, I think we're going in the right direction:



Adam

 

[AJC]

A little bit further - I've replaced the hopper supports at the outer end and the handrail stanchions to match. The vac' cylinder comes from an old Dapol Presflo that was started just before the Bachmann one turned up and needs plumbing in. The latter is no simple job as the pipe is in view above the solebar all the way along the wagon mostly without obvious means of support...




Adam

 

[AJC]

The sun is shining today so on my way back from a quick jaunt on the bike I picked up MRJ and, on a whim, the Railway Modeller - not my usual choice of light reading, but the shot of Love Lane on the cover lured me in and the mention of Allan Howles’ Kingsferry sealed the deal.



Yes, it's a GWR branch line terminus all 00 and mostly RTR-based and it’s something you could have seen 1000 times before. I know it through my contact with Yeovil Model Railway Group and some shots dad sent me over lockdown. The scale, setting and colouring, together with the nicely weathered stock are first class, however. The RM shots are nice, but Allan’s own are rather better, I think, and feature in the ‘news’ section of the club website: November 2020. It also has it's own pages on the site: Kingsferry – GWR – 4mm 00 finescale. A better class of GWR BLT, I think.

Adam

 

[AJC]

Late last night I broke the back of perhaps the last really difficult job on my Trout conversion, running the vac' pipe round the fixtures. The pipe is formed of several bits of 0.7mm brass wire, with fine electrical wire and bits of shim for detail and, in the case of the vac' cylinder end, to represent a join clearly visible of the real thing. This is much, much easier with a decent drawing as supplied in Southern Wagons volume 3; so often we have to guess the route the pipe took!



I love how the pipe disappears under the headstock before popping up and heading off behind the side stanchions...



... and then turns left back towards the centre line and, through bends and elbows, is bracketed in place. Yes, the dummy for the bag really was supported like that (I cut the pipe overlong and then slotted the end with a fine blade in a piercing saw which gives an overlong bit of 0.3mm wire something to hold onto until the solder does its job.

The next job is to knock up a replacement set of steps before thinking about how I'm going to lengthen the chutes underneath the thing.

Adam

 

[AJC]

The end is almost in sight! The last remaining detail parts will be a set of safety loops before moving on to reassembly and painting. So what's new? I've rebuilt the axleboxes (losing the nice moulded LNER lettering in the process), steps and some tiny door springs. Fiddly just about covers it, but I think it's worth it.



Note that I've also rebuilt the chutes - the Trout had chutes that were 8' over the ends, these SECR hoppers had an 8' aperture so I simply trimmed the existing ends, tidied up and added some new ones once I'd glued the assembly in place.



Adam

 

[AJC]

And here's the near finished SE&CR hopper, in the paintscheme that I guess the real thing would have ended its days. All the pictures I have of them in the BR period were taken before 1952 and show the vehicles in well-rusted Southern livery which is probably pushing it for something that lasted until after 1960. So all over black it is. The straw lettering isn't, as you'll observe, BR Gill Sans as I strongly suspect a repaint would have been performed outdoors at Broadclyst or Meldon and the signwriting on BR(S) service stock often looks a bit crude. So my way of approaching this comes from the HMRS sheet for Scottish pre-grouping wagons (various types of fish wagons on the NBR and Caley had the yellow letters, I think). Being Pressfix this was *fun*, but the end result isn't bad at all and will be improved by full weathering, but that's for another day.



Adam

 

[Overseer]

And here's the near finished SE&CR hopper, in the paintscheme that I guess the real thing would have ended its days. All the pictures I have of them in the BR period were taken before 1952 and show the vehicles in well-rusted Southern livery which is probably pushing it for something that lasted until after 1960. So all over black it is. The straw lettering isn't, as you'll observe, BR Gill Sans as I strongly suspect a repaint would have been performed outdoors at Broadclyst or Meldon and the signwriting on BR(S) service stock often looks a bit crude. So my way of approaching this comes from the HMRS sheet for Scottish pre-grouping wagons (various types of fish wagons on the NBR and Caley had the yellow letters, I think). Being Pressfix this was *fun*, but the end result isn't bad at all and will be improved by full weathering, but that's for another day.

View attachment 137211

Adam

Adam
The pressed metal side doors look good and well worth the effort. Talking of pressed metal, it is a minor detail but I have been hoping you would fill the joints in the pressed metal verticals so they look continuous. The gaps probably look more obvious in photos, as they catch the light, than in reality. Also, shouldn't the hopper corner angles at the operators end continue down to meet the solebars? Looks good though.
F