7mm Anyone using miniature fasteners?

alcazar

Guest
The ones that seem to come from the USA?

I'd like advice on which ones would be MOST useful for building 7mm steam locos, brass kits, adding to detail etc.

I could order a pack of each, but at well over $100, perhaps not.

So...which bolts, mock bolts, mock nuts, and rivets are best for 7mm scale? And are the tiny washers any use?

TIA
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
We have used the simulated hex bolts and simulated hex nuts.... generally in brass although we have bought some nickel plated items for use when modelling "steel" fixings in motion. From experience with a Finney A4 there seems to be a need for two sizes of "A/F" - we have used 0.7mm and 1.0mm.
 

taliesin

Western Thunderer
Hi there, i am not a 7mm modeller but a chap called Keith Jewell does 0.5 x 2mm and 0.5 x 3mm rivets in brass amongst other potentially useful things, his website is www.modellingtimbers.co.uk have a look. Bit of a sod to find on his site but they do exist, i have some myself, cheers Rob
 

taliesin

Western Thunderer
Check out the bottom of the models page where you can see the rivets put to good use on a 1/32 scale BR Standard 5, cheers Rob
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Good finds, but back to the question: what SIZES are most useful for 7mm steam locos?
I thought that I had answered your question at least in respect of Finney A3 and A4 kits... based upon conversations with Richard (DJ), Christian (Spearmint) and Nigel (Knight of Thistle). If not then maybe you can be clearer as to what you wish to know from members of this forum.

Which locos?
Or maybe, for what purpose? When I said that we use 0.7mm and 1.0mm A/F sizes of simulated nuts and bolts then that answer was in relation to general usage. To be honest the smaller sizes can be used... maybe in ways which others might not consider or wish to follow. For example:- unions on lubrication pipes.

regards, Graham
 

Stevesopwith

Western Thunderer
I've used Scale Hardware 1 mm rivets and 0.8 mm nuts as fishplate fixings. Their dimensional consistency and finish are excellent and they worked very well. I have given some thought to using them for loco rivets, instead of embossing.

Here's my version of the scale equivalents of the various sizes on offer... ( to the nearest imperial size. )

0.4 mm ........ 11/16" but would do for 5/8" or 3/4".
0.5 mm ..........7/8" " " " " 3/4" or 1"
0.7 mm ..........1 3/16" " " " " 1 1/4"
0.8 mm ..........1 3/8" " " " " 1 1/2"
1.0 mm ...........1 11/16" " " " " 1 5/8" or 1 3/4".

That's the easy bit...... the hard part is establishing the correct size for a given situation.

As an almost meaningless generalisation, the larger or thicker the component the larger the rivet size. Thus on my Fry Sentinel the body panel fixings were measured at 1/2" or 5/8" rivets, (or screw heads or nuts ) ; while the frame fixings are 1 1/4". Measuring the real thing is pretty reliable , just watch out for modern replacements on restored examples. A visit to a preservation society, armed with a pair of callipers and ruler, would provide a lot of useful information, if not for the exact chosen subject then something similar to get an idea.

Drawings.. particularly GAs... often give rivet sizes; but these usually indicate the stem size not the head. I have a drawing for an early GER loco which gives the tank rivetting as 3/8", but also the head size as 5/8" , suggesting that the rivet head might be estimated as 2/3 s larger than the stem? So the rivets attaching the hornblocks to the frames on a 'Claud Hamilton' are given as 7/8" , suggesting a head of around 1 3/8", or 0.8 mm in 7mm.

The same principles apply to the threaded and simulated hex nuts and bolts. The 0.8mm threaded nuts have an AF of about a scale 2", and are visible as nuts ... the 0.5 mm nuts are so small I haven't taken them out of the packet. :oops: I have to admit that I can barely make out that they are hexagons without a magnifying glass. The difference is that nuts are flat 'headed', rivets are domed.... so for nuts around an inch or less, wire pegs are an acceptable representation.

Thinking about their use on the model...... they can give a much crisper effect than embossing, but they require sometimes very small holes, with the same need for accuracy as embossing, and they also have to be soldered. I recommend an RSU, and lots of practice at applying miniscule amounts of solder cream.
For the smaller sizes for body panels etc I shall continue to use the embossing technique, and use the rivets and nuts for the larger frame fixings, where they are sufficiently visible to make it worth while.
 

alcazar

Guest
Thanks for all replies.
Sorry Dog Star, you did answer and very early on, but you didn't mention rivets.

I'm about to begin, (hopefully) a build of a Peppercorn a1 from a David Andrews kit, to be built as 60136 "Alcazar" as she was around 1961/2.

I've put myself to sleep the last few nights calculating inch sizes for scale rivets and nuts and bolts, in my head...LOL.....

As for going to preserved lines armed with calipers, well, I've tried that. I even rang up in advance. But TWICE, at the same place, I got there to be denied entry at all, by volunteers.
and with a 200 mile round trip on those occasions, in a car that does 28mpg, I'm not keen to repeat the process...
 

Stevesopwith

Western Thunderer
Wow! that experience with the preservation society must really have p----d you off. My sympathies.

I've had warm welcomes and enthusiastic help at Crich, Tanfield, Bressingham, Mid-Suffolk Light, and the Avon Valley ..... where in the country did you have your problem?
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Thanks for all replies.
Sorry Dog Star, you did answer and very early on, but you didn't mention rivets.

I'm about to begin, (hopefully) a build of a Peppercorn a1 from a David Andrews kit, to be built as 60136 "Alcazar" as she was around 1961/2.

I've put myself to sleep the last few nights calculating inch sizes for scale rivets and nuts and bolts, in my head...LOL.....

As for going to preserved lines armed with calipers, well, I've tried that. I even rang up in advance. But TWICE, at the same place, I got there to be denied entry at all, by volunteers.
and with a 200 mile round trip on those occasions, in a car that does 28mpg, I'm not keen to repeat the process...
Did you go at the weekend?, tend to find the 'staff' at weekends a bit more obstructive, been to NVR many times, mostly during the week and never had an issue, especially if you offer a donation to their Xmas box :thumbs:
 

alcazar

Guest
No, I went midweek.
I had previously been, got turned away, phoned up to ask when I got home, spoke to the general manager, who seemed a nice lady, she put me in touch with a guy who worked there and she said could help.

So........next time I could afford to go, I phoned him the night before, no probs, he wouldn't be there but all would be OK.
arrived: same reception, can't come in at all, we are shunting.

Explained, they phoned the general manager, she arrived half an hour later, it was obvious she had been primed, first thing I heard her say as she got out of her car was, "Where are they?" No chance of entry.

I offered to join, wear hi-viz, be accompanied, go in on my own without my son (aged 22), nope, no-one to spare, all too busy having their lunch.

So I left and will NEVER go there again. A shame, as they have TWO locos I could do with getting access to.
It wasn't JUST the fuel, either, it's a long way and none of it motorway, lots of winding roads.

I won't say where this was, but a complaint like the above got me banned form RMWeb, apparently I might upset some people who work there if I complained too loudly.....
 

AndyB

Western Thunderer
Not strictly 7mm - but might be a usable idea for the larger sizes needed.
ABER produce photo-etch nuts with fold-up sides - to get the required thickness but without any etch cusp. They seem to be aimed at 1:35 scale miltary modellers.

So I 'borrowed' the idea, and produced an equivalent for Gauge 3 - in 5/8", 3/4", 7/8" & 1" Whitworth.
Here are the 5/8" W size, used on a replacement door runner bracket for the Slaters MR wagon kit.
They are 1.24mm A/F. Might be OK for a 1 1/4"W nut in 7mm?

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Andy
 
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