Prototype Barry 1967 and 1968

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
There is the story about Southampton FC being in a semi final at Villa Park. Special WC/BB hauled trains were used to bring in the fans to Snow Hill from the northwest. The reason for this is unclear, except that several trains were piloted by 8Fs to climb Old Hill. A bit of a round about route for the fans who ultimately went home the losers to Man U.

This photograph partly explains the situation with one Bullied pacific alone on the Down centre road while an 8F enters Platform 7 piloting what I think is another Bullied pacific (look at the tender!)


Clearly Bullied pacifics may not have been known for their hill climbing capabilities!
 
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oldravendale

Western Thunderer
That's an interesting observation about the WCs/BBs, Paul.

There's no doubt that the light pacifics in particular were prone to slipping on start up. I well remember an occasion at Southampton Central when the driver of "The Pines" had the devil's own job to get the train started. I have a movie of it somewhere. However, they seemed to work quite satisfactorily on the S & D although I'd be the first to admit that they were quite often piloted by a 2P 4-4-0. The one thing not in dispute, I suggest, is the ability of that Bulleid boiler to make steam although that's a fat lot of good if it can't be transmitted to the rail head.

The last two Bulleid pacifics today, both of the Merchant Navy flavour.

First is 35005, Canadian Pacific. This was withdrawn from Weymouth in September 1964. It arrived at Barry in January 1966. In March 1973 it went to Steamtown and then the GCR where it first steamed in 1990. It's currently under overhaul on the Mid Hants Railway.

35005.  Barry.  18 November 1967.  Photo by Brian Dale.  copyright FINAL.jpg

Here's the same loco at Waterloo on a special to Eastleigh and Swindon two and a half years earlier on 23rd May 1965.

35005.  Waterloo.  23 May 1965.  See Properties - Details - Comments for information. copyrigh...jpg

The second of this class is 35022, Holland America Line. It was withdrawn from Weymouth in May 1966. It was purchased by the Southern Steam Trust in 1983 but did not leave the yard until March 1986 when it went to Swanage. At the moment it's stored at Crewe awaiting restoration.

35022.  Barry.  18 November 1967.  Photo by Brian Dale.  copyright FINAL.jpg

Brian
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Are they really? On the main line perhaps but most heritage lines are light railways restricted to 25mph max. A small engine working hard is much more of a spectacle than a big engine constrained!

Seeing 6 of the Bulleids at Swanage a few years back was enough to make me drive a long way down there and spend a weekend on the line. Wouldn't have done that for a tank engine.
 

Renovater

Western Thunderer
I went there with my grandfather in 1965 i was 6 at the time, he put me up onto a cab whilst he stayed below on the ground, he seemed a long way down, i wasn't too sure about it all. We had left the car at Pilning and went to Barry island. On the way back at Cardiff general on the platform there was a machine where you could make a recording and you got a flexible record in 33rpm. I was living in Bounemouth at the time and i can still remember steam there, i was trainspotting by 1967 at the age of eight and in the Ian Allen club complete with badge !
 
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oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the pictures, Simon. Stuff really got grotty in that salt sea air, didn't it?

As far as the use of large locos on heritage railways is concerned I believe you are all correct. I've bored everyone who'll listen about my involvement with the GCR at Loughborough. The original intention was to have large engines working in realistic conditions. I agree that, as enthusiasts there is a great deal of joy in seeing and riding behind a small engine being worked hard. However there is no doubt that big engines bring in the punters. At the last GCR gala there were two 9Fs double heading. How ridiculous some would say, but the train was packed. It was always the intention to bring a main line experience to the GCR and although the speed is indeed limited to 25 mph - ish for passenger trains the GCR has a derogation for testing and non passenger carrying trains which allows, as an example, the extreme spectacle of the mail train opening up through Quorn and picking up mailbags. Last weekend "Tornado" made a guest visit. I've yet to see figures but I'll bet trains were full. And then there's the diesel fleet......

At the other end of the scale I'm very fond of the Bluebell which I find at its best on a quiet day with the small tank engines. At galas the big locos come out which is OK but, to my mind at least, inappropriate for the branch line vibe. Nevertheless big engines bring in the punters and £ turnover is now more than ever hugely important. (Sadly the Bluebell had the opportunity to buy a Brighton "K" but decided it was too large for their sphere of operations. The Ks were in great condition only having been recently overhauled when they were withdrawn but hindsight is a precise science.)

In whatever way we enjoy the fruits of the thousands of hours enthusiasts have spent on restoring stock and infrastructure we really are spoilt for choice in the UK, are we not?

Brian
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Are they really? On the main line perhaps but most heritage lines are light railways restricted to 25mph max. A small engine working hard is much more of a spectacle than a big engine constrained!

well, I guess we would all like to see a big engine working hard, but I was thinking of the not-particularly-enthusiast punters, I guess the majority of whom will never have seen steam in service

As Brian says, “Big engines bring in punters”.
 

Simon

Flying Squad
Oh forgive me Brian, but mention of the "K" requires a slight, er, diversion.

My friend Dennis's dad Chris died last year, at a very good age. He was a fantastic character, as is Dennis, and in relatively recent years started building Gauge One locomotives to run on my erstwhile line. An engineer by profession, and hugely skilled, in his mid to late eighties he found the workshop quite challenging, but produced some beautiful models nonetheless. And put the rest of us to shame with his productivity.

All of the models were painted by Dennis.

So, to the "K", a magnificent beast.

DSCN9551.jpg
DSCN9553.jpg

I can't resist including this fabulous picture of Chris from the order of service, a good looking chap in the Fleet Air Arm.

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Thank you very much Chris.

Apologies for digression!

Simon
 

LarryG

Western Thunderer
It all started off with different intentions back in the day. I was in a model shop I did painting for in the early 1960s when a chap came in asking for donations. He was talking of preserving a branchline in Yorkshire (Keighley) where 'we' could all enjoy seeing the line continue as if it had never closed. I'll bet a pound to a penny we all imagined a 3F 0-6-0 hauling two ex.LMS non-corridor coaches for ever more!!!

If those pilgrims of 60 years ago had tried to raise money on the strength that BR's diesel and DMU fleet would have somewhere to run when they were withdrawn, I wonder how many standard gauge heritage lines would be in existence today.

Today, management across the country wears a different hat. It has to when financial reality demands a thriving leisure industry. Forget the steam-era; its gone ~ Barry was the graveyard!
 

Simon

Flying Squad
Thank you, Dennis (whose loco it is and who doesn't do the Internet) will be chuffed to hear your kind comments.

On which basis, all these locos were built by Chris and painted by Dennis. The B1 is really stunning. Perhaps I ought to start a "Gauge One Antidote to Barry" thread(!)

DSCN9544.jpg
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
That "K" is a thing of beauty, Simon.

As for the preserved lines, Larry, as with most heritage situations they are sanitised and only a representation of the real thing. However there are some circumstances on every line I've ever visited when I think "they've got that right" and it brings the memories flooding back. In my case a large percentage of my effort was for self gratification in the hope that we could recreate something but those early days were back breaking toil. I remain convinced that we continue to create something which gives a great deal of pleasure to many people and that surely is not a bad thing.

Once again, though, back to the subject in hand. We'll leave the Southern now and move on to BR (M).

This is Ivatt 2-6-2T 41313. A perfect loco economically for a preserved railway but not exactly a crowd puller. Although of LMS derivation it spent its entire working life on the Southern finally being withdrawn from Eastleigh in October 1965. It was sold to Woodham's in 1966 and moved to Quainton Road in 1975 where it was intended to be a parts donor for other locos. Restoration was carried out at Cranmore and the loco is now operational on the Isle of Wight.

41313.  Barry.  18 November 1967.  Photo by Brian Dale.  copyright FINAL.jpg

Here's one of two Crabs. 42765 was withdrawn from Birkenhead in December 1966 and arrived at Barry in June 1967. The East Lancs Railway acquired the loco in April 1978 and it returned to steam. It has since had one further overhaul and is currently under overhaul again on the East Lancs Railway although is another of the unfortunates having suffered the attentions of thieves relieving it of around £10,000 worth of fittings.

42765.  Barry.  18 November 1967.  Photo by Brian Dale.  copyright FINAL.jpg

This is probably the saddest story in preservation. 42859 was withdrawn from Birkenhead at the end of December 1966. It was bought and moved to Hull Dairycoates in 1986. The over-simplified story is that there were then disputes between the owner and other parties ultimately resulting in the boiler and tender being scrapped. The frames and wheels are now at the East Lancs Railway and restoration is proposed but recognised to be a very long term project. In fact this is a case where we should probably regard anything based on the remaining parts as being a new build rather than a restoration.

42859.  Barry.  18 November 1967.  Photo by Brian Dale.  copyright FINAL.jpg

Brian
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
The demise of steam was well under way in the Midlands in 1964 when I started university at Southampton in September 1964. My first year was in Chamberlain Hall of Residence in Swaythling. To walk to the campus required going over the LSWR main line on Woodmill Lane. This overbridge had, if I remember correctly, high walls so you couldn't see the trains, but the smoke and steam was visible as the Bullied pacifics went under, still pulling the Waterloo expresses. I had really lost interest at the time, being immersed in college life and studying a whole new subject not previously taught in secondary school.

Earlier, as an argumentative teenager I had strong feelings about my stepfather's belief that steam had to go, that Dr. Beeching was right. Well, he did make a living as a time and motion man, so that was understandable. But in the end, the Bullieds meant nothing to me at all, at least until they had all gone and the the slam door electrics took over. During this period I took just one photo of a steam engine:

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And it was preserved, though not a Barry locomotive! Located just inside Southampton Docks, roughly where the Ocean Terminal trains would have entered, This area has changed beyond recognition.
 

LarryG

Western Thunderer
In 1950, I saw the 'Crab' as something really-really ancient and as such was much liked. A 'Crab' would occasionally came on shed when I was at Lees 26F, but the men talked about the dodgy injectors and other things so this put me off them ~ for a short while! They must be the only class of engines that looked in their normal condition when in Barry Scrapyard. :)
 
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