Brushs Laser Cutting and 3d Printing workbench

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Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Simon,

I'm with you I think - I'm also one of those that when I (occasionally) build track find paper templates a constant irritation. This gives me a way to build the track on a stable support, I can then treat and weather it before bedding it down into ballast with something like Copydex (all of which have been common in US outline hand built trackwork for years). Experiments I made with a group of colleagues probably 20 years ago (@Yorkshire Dave might remember!) showed that not having the paper backing in the permanent way was noticeably quieter. Cue images of trying to steam or soak templates off the back of built pointwork!

Happy daze... :D

Steph
 
martin_wynne

martin_wynne

Western Thunderer
BrushType4 said:
Martin, you may be right and you've told me you think its a stupid idea in our previous correspondence but everyone is different and like to do things in their own way.
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Hi Phil,

Sure, each to his own. Provided it's an informed decision and beginners aren't misled.

Yes, I make no bones about it, I think these bases, and the ones supplied by a previous owner of C&L, are a stupid idea. Expensive, wasteful of material, and make track construction more difficult.

I don't see how these bases can be used without sticking them on a printed template, so the arguments about problems with paper are immaterial. The printed template contains a great deal of information which is needed during construction -- exact position of switch tips, length of planing, position of set in stock rail, precise location of blunt nose, knuckle bend, lengths and flare angles of check rails, wing rails, position of rail joints and fishplates.

It's possible for Templot plans to be printed on tracing paper and laid on the rail top during construction, but you still need and underlying template to align them.

If you wanted a more sensible product, how about a pack of individual timbers, cut to size to match a Templot design? That saves the task of measuring and cutting them from strip, provides greater precision, but then continues with the ease of traditional trackbuilding.

cheers,

Martin.
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Pencarrow said:
Ok, probably a daft question, but how do you stick the sleepers down secure enough so they don't move when releasing the frame without accidentally sticking down the frames?

Interesting idea though.
Click to expand...

Just gluing the centre of the sleepers will be enough to hold it down, once the frame is removed the ballast laid will help hold on the ends of sleepers.
Add a little thinner glue around the ends and it will probably get drawn under by capillary action.

Col
 
BrushType4

BrushType4

Western Thunderer
martin_wynne said:
If you wanted a more sensible product, how about a pack of individual timbers, cut to size to match a Templot design? That saves the task of measuring and cutting them from strip, provides greater precision, but then continues with the ease of traditional trackbuilding.
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Martin, thats an excellent idea and will support my range of sleepers and sleeper strips. Are there specific lengths or are they tailored to each turnout?
 
JimG

JimG

Western Thunderer
BrushType4 said:
Martin, thats an excellent idea and will support my range of sleepers and sleeper strips. Are there specific lengths or are they tailored to each turnout?
Click to expand...
Phil,

The timbers are in X' 0" or X' 6" lengths where X is a number of ft. The timbers increment from the heel of the switch towards and through the crossing. Where the increments occur depends on the angle of the turnout. You can tote up the number of each length by counting along the turnout. If you go into the "Shove Timbers" facility you can check out the length of each timber, either in scale measurements or full size measurements.

If you talk nicely to Martin, I bet he could come up with yet another addition to Templot to produce a list of timbers with the count of each size in a template. :):):)

Jim.
 
martin_wynne

martin_wynne

Western Thunderer
JimG said:
If you talk nicely to Martin, I bet he could come up with yet another addition to Templot to produce a list of timbers with the count of each size in a template. :):):)
Click to expand...

Hi Jim, Phil,

I talked nicely to myself over breakfast and have already decided that would be a useful addition to Templot. :)

Phil, almost all the crossing timbers in any plan will be 12" wide in 6" length increments from 8ft-6in up to about 16ft, with a few up to about 30ft. You would therefore need only to keep a stock of all the sizes. To create a pack to match a given track plan, you would need only to pick the required number of each from stock. You already do stocks of 10" x 8ft-6in for the plain sleepers.

cheers,

Martin.
 
BrushType4

BrushType4

Western Thunderer
Another formation cut this morning. Taking on Martins comments and just checked with the customer how he will lay the track and his plan is to stick this over the printed templot plan.

I suppose the saving is sticking down the formation in minutes rather than individual sleepers.

E26738FF-72E2-4C4B-AD18-526A5E0687B6.jpeg 765A5B38-898B-4A81-B1F3-31C4BDABC3FC.jpeg
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Steph Dale said:
Simon,

I'm with you I think - I'm also one of those that when I (occasionally) build track find paper templates a constant irritation. This gives me a way to build the track on a stable support, I can then treat and weather it before bedding it down into ballast with something like Copydex (all of which have been common in US outline hand built trackwork for years). Experiments I made with a group of colleagues probably 20 years ago (@Yorkshire Dave might remember!) showed that not having the paper backing in the permanent way was noticeably quieter. Cue images of trying to steam or soak templates off the back of built pointwork!

Happy daze... :D

Steph
Click to expand...


thanks Steph,

I think plain track is relatively easy, and it wouldn't add much to copy what Phil has done for that, however it seems to me that it would be possible to do plain sleepering by having a link between sleepers on one side only, to generate & maintain the spacing, and the wastage could then be minimised by having two sleeper panels interlaced. This would certainly speed up track laying as it would not be necessary to count the sleepers within a panel to get the closer spacing at the fishplates, and by putting the links on the outside of the curve, it would automatically adjust the sleeper angles and spacing too.

My frustration has always been to keep the slide chair timbers in place, when I take the pointwork off the template. My current approach is based on advice I had from Martin some years back, I simply stick the template to some card, and leave template and card attached to the underside of the timbers - and then paint, fix down, and then dry ballast in the normal way, followed by lashings of watered down latex, which seems to bond everything together.

The downside of this is that, as you say, it tends to be noisy - not a great issue for the current locoshed, but when the extension is built and the main line is down, it would be for sure, so finding a way to deal with that seems to me to be a good step forwards. If the plans can be printed on something impervious and pre-spaced timbering laid on top, and temporarily fixed down whilst building the rest of the formation, I guess it would lift in one piece, and thus it would be possible to do the copydex approach to fitting large panels to the foam sub-base.

It's all hypothetical, I haven't got any trackwork to build at the moment... :(

atb
Simon
 
martin_wynne

martin_wynne

Western Thunderer
BrushType4 said:
Taking on Martins comments and just checked with the customer how he will lay the track and his plan is to stick this over the printed Templot plan. I suppose the saving is sticking down the formation in minutes rather than individual sleepers.
Click to expand...

Hi Phil,

If the suggested use is always to stick these bases over the template print, my main objection is removed. However the owner of the TimberTracks/C&L business made a big issue of templates not being required with the bases.

Is this a commercial track-builder? If the time-saving is worth the extra expense, this is probably a viable option. But for most hobbyists, time saving is not the primary objective, saving money often is, and many like the option of making last-minute tweaks to the design while track-building.

In any event, if you supplied a pack of timbers already cut to size, sticking them one at a time is so much easier than aligning and sticking a full fret over a large print, that the time difference might not be so great.

And there remains the difficulty of the webs. Ballasting an area of complex pointwork is tricky enough without the added difficulty of a web under the rail. Removing the web after construction without damaging the track is difficult -- it needs a nibbler type of tool. Anything with a blade will force the timbers apart by the thickness of the blade.

All in all, spending a few minutes gently sticking pre-cut timbers to a template seems far preferable to me.

cheers,

Martin.
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
BrushType4 said:
To continue the sleeper controversy, how about do we need to do this in wood/ply or will MDF do?

Lasercutting MDF seals it so normal gluing, painting/staining and weathering won't affect MDF as one may expect.

Is the wood grain, such that it is, worthwhile?
View attachment 126277 View attachment 126278
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Not sure about MDF, ply yes you can trust it if it's good quality. I've seen the problems you get long term with mdf baseboard construction so in this instance a bit of an unknown, my personal opinion would be to use ply, plus you get the grain effect as well.

Col.
 
A

AndyH

Active Member
Hello,
I’ve laser cut sleepers in a similar way using MDF in 7mm finescale (2.5 years old) and 12mm/ft narrow gauge (2 years old) with no adverse problems so far. Touch man made composite material.
Chairs were glued with quick set epoxy (12mm self made resin castings) and both had a little distressing on the upper surface with various grades of production paper.
Andy
 
BrushType4

BrushType4

Western Thunderer
simond said:
Well, I hope MDF is ok, as I’ve built a ruddy great engine shed from the stuff, and I don’t fancy building another one...

Porth Dinllaen in 0

Atb
Simon
Click to expand...
To be honest Simon, I think it is a perception. I've got untreated buildings in my workshop from more than 5 years ago and they are fine. I'm going to knock up a couple of test pieces and get them weathered to see the differance.

PS I've not seen that before. Why not post over here?
 
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simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Hi Phil,

I’m sure that MDF doesn’t like “wet” and it really doesn’t like acid flux, but otherwise, it seems fine. Fingers crossed.

the Porth Dinllaen thread has been running on RMW since 2013, and I had my Greater Windowledge Railway over there before that. I joined WT in the summer of 2014, and there was already quite a lot on the thread - and quite a few followers.

I know that a couple of folks have moved over, but I’ve never had a problem with RMW, there were/are quite a few other threads that I follow over there, and it just seemed easier to keep the thread where it is.

Atb
Simon
 
Mike Garwood

Mike Garwood

Western Thunderer
For me I'd never use mdf. Too many horror stories that I've heard and have actually seen for myself. I'm just wondering if the ply could be of the same thickness (0.8/9mm) as the ply timbers from the Scale 4 Soc stores or perhaps thickness of the timbers could be a customer option? Just so that the transition from one system to the other wouldn't cause any problems. As for ballasting - I can't see a problem with the webs, most - if not all - will be hidden by rail. Having seen the way Norman Soloman adds his ballasting to track, it certainly won't be a problem. Just my thoughts.

Mike
 
martin_wynne

martin_wynne

Western Thunderer
JimG said:
If you talk nicely to Martin, I bet he could come up with yet another addition to Templot to produce a list of timbers with the count of each size in a template. :):):)
Click to expand...
Hi Jim, Phil,

In the next program update:

2_261108_270000000.png


cheers,

Martin.
 
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