7mm Cagger's Workbench...

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Caggers, 6 July 2012.

  1. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    I suggest that you drop the S7 Group Stores an e-mail and ask for details - I am not sure if the new gauge is on the current Stores List. You can always hope that Paul Stokes reads this and drops you a PM!

    Sshh, you do not need to be too concerned about gauge narrowing on plain line track, the prototype has some side clearance bewtween the running face of the rail and the flange of the wheel - just do not try the same trick on curved track. The real problem comes with gauge narrowing at the toe of the switch - here the track gauge has to be wider than 33mm to allow for the thickness of the switch blade.

    Simon, you may recollect I have a handful of the sprung track gauges (see this thread)... if the screw is loosened slightly then the gap between the "gripping" flanges can be widened enough to accomodate a stock rail at one end (of the gauge) and a stock rail plus switch blade at the other end. If the stock rails are set using sprung gauges with loosened screws then the 33mm between running faces is measured between the running face of a stock rail and the running face of the opposite stock rail. Savvy?

    regards, Graham PW, S&C, and buffer stop.
  2. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    The picture isn't large enough but [pedant mode] the chair at bottom left looks the wrong way round, where the fish plate will be will stop the wooden keys being knocked in. Ironically all the other chairs on that rail (nearest) would be the correctly orientated.


    Sorry, that's about the only thing I have actually learnt.....and retained about track work LOL, other than that, nice work, did you get that track template from Templot or C&L? currently looking for B6 and B7 LH and RH so I can finally get some P&W down.
  3. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Zoom suggests that you need to swap the end sleepers... tsk, tsk, after all that practice on trackwork here.

    regards, Graham
  4. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer

    The interesting thing here is that the keys are probably all too big for LNER PW, as the diagrams I am working to have them at 6" and fully centred on the chair. And show the keys butt up to the Fishplate, well within 1/8"...
    I seem to remember reading something about the keys being inserted before the fishplates, but could have dreamt that...:oops: So my plan was to see where the fishplate actually end up, as I do not have any yet.

    I drew it myself, full size, then scaled it down when printing. the source is the 'Standard Railway Equipment LNER - Permanent Way, 1926 book from the NERA. I plan on doing some points in the near future, but have not quite sorted what I need yet.

    I have slept, drunk (been drunk) and moved house twice since then... I could not remember which way round your track had the end chairs should be. 50/50 chance got it wrong, but also see above...

    But then again Fred and the gang decided to do it this way...

    Thanks for the comments, at least they are constructive, after looking at the photo I saw other things I was not completely happy with...

    Cheers, Simon
    Dog Star likes this.
  5. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Albert reads WT even though (a) the bicycle-powered generator is not always available when the wife is off shopping, and (b) his abacus display needs a replacement candle - that is the trouble with these modern models, the back lighting uses so much candlepower. After considering your comment Albert is prepared his little black book to Fred, only for a few minutes mind you. Albert mumbled something about "if Fred does not know which way to knock the keys then he probably needs to be told which end of the hammer to use, etc., etc..".

    regards, Barking
  6. Simon

    Simon Flying Squad

    Unless Fred's got a supply of two bolt fishplates then he's stuffed whatever he says....

    Of course he could always just knock the key in from the other side like everyone else:p
  7. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer

    Hammer????:confused: Normally uses the largest piece of ballast laid around...
  8. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer

    Well after a few months of doing other things non railway related and then building a kit or two I have gone full circle and am back on permanent way...

    I have been allocated some space in the Blyth and Tyne Model Railway Society club room and have built the first couple of baseboards and last night I have laid the sleepers for my first point. I had laid these out on a glass sheet but did not want to build it them move it. I am also looking to use lengths of rail through the point, where possible, to increase strength and stability. I will obviously be adding the relevant notch in the rail head to simulate rail joints...

    I just thought I'd share some pictures
  9. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer


    My local club BTMRS have had a Gala weekend this weekend and I managed to dodge the parental athletics taxi job this weekend, having done it last week and will be on the road to Doncaster next weekend... By the way my fifteen year old daughter is the inter counties 100m champion next is the national competition!!!

    Anyway, back to my post... I have spent the weekend working on the point I started above. I had printed out a REA B7 point from templot, then cut out the sleepers to make a 'paper doyly' as described by a friend earlier today. I laid this in place and then glued the sleepers through the holes on to the underlay...

    As outlined above my plan was to lay a metre length of rail through the point to give better strength to the structure, so yesterday I started to feed chairs on to the rail. This is where I hit a snag. I was using the LNER drawing to sort out the chair types only to find the templot plot is wrong. If has the wrong number of sleeper at the differing lengths and 15' sleepers which the LNER drawings do not use... So I lifted some of the sleeper and re-laid them to match the LNER 1920's diagrams. Lessons learnt check the preferred documentation before gluing...

    So today I started laying rails and now have some fixed to the sleepers:



    What you see is attached.

    I did a little bodge testing the pliers here stop the loose rail from moving:

  10. martin_wynne

    martin_wynne Western Thunderer


    To match a specific prototype in Templot exactly it is necessary to change to CLM unit angles, and usually change to a generic-type V-crossing. But if the prototype shows a crossing entry straight in column A in the lead tables, use a regular-type V-crossing and adjust the entry straight to match the table. The lead length should then match the table, and the number of timbers will probably be correct. If not the fill timber spacing can be adjusted accordingly. The LNER is known to use fewer long timbers generally than other companies.

    The LNER used a shorter lead length for a B-7 than other companies. The LNER table for B-7 shows a crossing entry straight of 1ft-5in, and a lead length of 60ft-7.3/4in to blunt nose.

    For other companies using the REA designs, there is no crossing entry straight on a B-7, and the lead length varies between 61ft-1.1/2in and 61ft-3.3/32in to blunt nose.

    Also you will get the best results by changing to the "exact" setting for 7mm/ft scale (so that the gauge is 32.96mm instead of 33.0mm for S7). Small changes in gauge have a magnified effect on the lead length.

    Templot isn't usually "wrong", it's just a matter of entering the specific information for your prototype if you want to work to that level of detail.


    Len Cattley, S-Club-7 and Dog Star like this.
  11. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer


    Thanks for the comments, but although I have a templot printed point that's about all I have managed out of templot... But that is another conversation for another thread on the forum.

    I believed that a B switch was a standard 'layout' which is why I believed the templot print out should be right, but there were a number of differences in the number of each size sleepers compared with the LNER drawings/diagrams so something is a miss.

    To ensure I get the result I am looking for I will be making a 'finger rake' template to match the LNER layout I am looking for.

    Once again thanks for your comments.
  12. martin_wynne

    martin_wynne Western Thunderer

    Hi Caggers,

    What seems to be amiss is that you are expecting Templot to know you want an LNER turnout without telling it the relevant dimensions. :)

    Here I have set exact-scale track gauge (32.96mm), 1:7CLM crossing angle (1:6.96RAM), and adjusted the crossing entry straight to match the LNER B-7 lead length dimension of 60ft-7.3/4in (424.52mm scale).


    I have set two options for the fill timber spacing in the closure space. The upper turnout has the normal setting not exceeding the usual 2ft-6in max centre-to-centre spacing. The lower turnout has one timber fewer, but the spacing is increased thereby to nearly 2ft-7in. I don't know which of these best matches your drawing. You may still need to adjust some of the timber lengths to match, using the shove timbers function.

    The .box file is here: http://templot.com/forum_attach/lner_b7clm.box

    (I can't attach .box files on this forum)

    (p.s. The NERA reprint of the LNER 1926 p.w. drawings booklet shows an A-7 turnout, which obviously is much shorter, if that is the drawing you have, than a B-7.)


    Last edited: 23 June 2015
  13. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer


    Thanks for the info. I am working to the NERA booklet, however, I am not with the booklet at he moment so it would be difficult to comment correctly.

    From your screen grab does the 'information' dialog box match the point layout behind?
  14. martin_wynne

    martin_wynne Western Thunderer

    Hi Caggers,

    Yes. B-7CLM to LNER lead length at 7mm/ft.


  15. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer

    It's been a while since I last posted on this this thread, so thought I'd share some pictures, showing the current status of my S7 layout.

    Attached Files:

    Dog Star likes this.
  16. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer

    And a couple of videos... :)

    Or not, the site will not allow... I'll upload to one of the tubes for sharing video on the wibbly wobbly web, and share later.
  17. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer


    What is the overall depth and length?

    Please post a trackplan.

    regards, Graham
  18. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer

    Videos should help Graham

    The Track plan has been evolving, but should be sorted now. Still have some track to lay and point blades to file.
    7mmMick and Dog Star like this.
  19. Caggers

    Caggers Western Thunderer

    Track Plan.

    Off to the right will be the fiddle yard.

    Attached Files:

    7mmMick and Dog Star like this.
  20. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Nice, thank you.