oldravendale
Western Thunderer
More proof - thank you David.
Brian
Brian
Prototype Can anyone identify Where & When?
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Here's another Brit, Mick. Again I know nothing about the (once again very under exposed) shot. Could this be at around the same time as "Charles Dickens", and perhaps at Crewe Shed?
The only clue is the 55A Leeds Holbeck shed plate on 70053, Moray Firth. So may be this is, in fact, Holbeck? The loco was transferred to Holbeck in November 1958 from Polmadie and transferred away to Crewe North (5A) in August 1962.
Any thoughts??
Brian
The only clue is the 55A Leeds Holbeck shed plate on 70053, Moray Firth. So may be this is, in fact, Holbeck? The loco was transferred to Holbeck in November 1958 from Polmadie and transferred away to Crewe North (5A) in August 1962.
Any thoughts??
Brian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Brain, well the engine is AWS and speedometer fitted so that makes the date (roughly as I don't have the referance books here) after 60-61, OHLE flashes also confirm that as they appeared around that time.
My first thought was Crewe North, but this area would be sharply curved to fit inside the Chester lines and it feels too open to be Crewe North, that spire in the left background and tower in the right back ground niggle me so I'm going to hedge a good bet it's Holbeck, simply because I think I've used those reference points in one of your other shots.
I'll check when I get home, or a chance to go back through this thread looking at the previous Holbeck shots, but fornow I'd opt for Holbeck.
Those big LMR tenders really bulk out the Britannia's look, whilst I still like the stepped version, certainly on the GEML trains, these big high sided ones do change the whole look of the engine and have a visual edge over the others. My Severn Models kit has one of these, I've not yet found a picture of one on the ECML, more specifically on the southern GN end at the Cross, shame as that'd be the engine I'd pick. Other than that the high sided tenders were attached to engines with pretty boring names on the whole, making a suitable choice for me quite difficult. The LMR hand holds in the deflector are also a nice touch, much neater than the letter box style ones from the WR, and no, i haven't open the kit box just, but my resolve is becoming weak
MD
My first thought was Crewe North, but this area would be sharply curved to fit inside the Chester lines and it feels too open to be Crewe North, that spire in the left background and tower in the right back ground niggle me so I'm going to hedge a good bet it's Holbeck, simply because I think I've used those reference points in one of your other shots.
I'll check when I get home, or a chance to go back through this thread looking at the previous Holbeck shots, but fornow I'd opt for Holbeck.
Those big LMR tenders really bulk out the Britannia's look, whilst I still like the stepped version, certainly on the GEML trains, these big high sided ones do change the whole look of the engine and have a visual edge over the others. My Severn Models kit has one of these, I've not yet found a picture of one on the ECML, more specifically on the southern GN end at the Cross, shame as that'd be the engine I'd pick. Other than that the high sided tenders were attached to engines with pretty boring names on the whole, making a suitable choice for me quite difficult. The LMR hand holds in the deflector are also a nice touch, much neater than the letter box style ones from the WR, and no, i haven't open the kit box just, but my resolve is becoming weak
MD
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Hawkeye again, Mick. I'd not noticed the church spire and felt that the tower was insufficient evidence on it's own. There have been other shots, as you say, at putatively around the same time and at Holbeck, so I believe it's quite possible.
As for names - well at least they're not called Kylie Minogue or The Stranglers......
B
As for names - well at least they're not called Kylie Minogue or The Stranglers......
B
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Brian,
Well, it's certainly Holbeck, but finding just the shot that'll convince you is proving harder than I expected, plenty of shots that show bits or part of what you have but not one that shows it all. I did however find this shot.
c.1962 - Holbeck (55A) MPD, Leeds.
Your photo is behind the loco on the third track across, you can just make out the ash plant roof over the tender in this view.
Here's another poorer shot
Holbeck 1954. by Dan, on Flickr
Your loco is on the track at extreme left of this shot by that ash plant.
A slightly closer shot, this engine is in the exact same position as yours, just that the photographer is facing the wrong way.
92023 by Peter, on Flickr
MD
Well, it's certainly Holbeck, but finding just the shot that'll convince you is proving harder than I expected, plenty of shots that show bits or part of what you have but not one that shows it all. I did however find this shot.
c.1962 - Holbeck (55A) MPD, Leeds.
Your photo is behind the loco on the third track across, you can just make out the ash plant roof over the tender in this view.
Here's another poorer shot
Holbeck 1954. by Dan, on FlickrYour loco is on the track at extreme left of this shot by that ash plant.
A slightly closer shot, this engine is in the exact same position as yours, just that the photographer is facing the wrong way.
92023 by Peter, on FlickrMD
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Yes, Mick. I'm convinced - not that I needed much convincing.
In fact I spent time going through the pics by Dan but couldn't find anything convincing.
Thanks for the efforts.
Brian
In fact I spent time going through the pics by Dan but couldn't find anything convincing.
Thanks for the efforts.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Here's the latest. This has taken a full two weeks, off and on, to reprocess, as it was covered in minute dust marks. In my view this was worth spending the time on, though, as it's an interesting photo of a not so interesting prototype.
Again, no evidence of when or where, although I suspect it was taken in Crewe at the same time as the shot of 70033 which puts it at June 1958. I have no detailed info of visits to works by the Standard 5s, but I know that it was a Midland engine before being transferred to Sheffield Grimesthorpe, 41B, on 10 May 1958, and then Canklow, 41D, on 7 Jan 1961 before going back to the Midland Region. Would a Standard 5 from the Eastern have gone to Crewe for overhaul at this time? Ultimately 73000 was withdrawn from Patricroft, 9H (although I can find no other references to Patricroft being identified as 9H) or 10C, on 31 March 1968, eventually being scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, in June 1968.
Brian
Again, no evidence of when or where, although I suspect it was taken in Crewe at the same time as the shot of 70033 which puts it at June 1958. I have no detailed info of visits to works by the Standard 5s, but I know that it was a Midland engine before being transferred to Sheffield Grimesthorpe, 41B, on 10 May 1958, and then Canklow, 41D, on 7 Jan 1961 before going back to the Midland Region. Would a Standard 5 from the Eastern have gone to Crewe for overhaul at this time? Ultimately 73000 was withdrawn from Patricroft, 9H (although I can find no other references to Patricroft being identified as 9H) or 10C, on 31 March 1968, eventually being scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, in June 1968.
Brian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Brian, It's Doncaster works, the overhead crane and building supports give it away.
Best shot at quick notice is this one.
http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-nrm-doncaster-plant-1.jpg
The round topped boiler in the background is another give away, not many of them on the LMR
The linked image was taken in 1957 and clearly shows several standard locos.
MD
Best shot at quick notice is this one.
http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-nrm-doncaster-plant-1.jpg
The round topped boiler in the background is another give away, not many of them on the LMR
The linked image was taken in 1957 and clearly shows several standard locos.
MD
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oldravendale
Western Thunderer
OK. I submit! I was going by the beams in the previous shot and that they match those in the one of the Standard 5. It's clearly Doncaster again, though. It was transferred away to the LMR 6 January 1962 so we already have a broad date between May 1958 and January 1962, and we can shorten that period by a bit because it's doubtful that the Eastern Region would have overhauled the loco before transferring it away.
Thanks for your help again.
Brian
Thanks for your help again.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Here's another. A much cleaner neg and easy to clean up. Exposure not bad either.
This is standard 5 No 73008 on the "Bon Accord", Aberdeen – Glasgow Buchanan Street, 1948-1968 . At first glance this looked like somewhere on the line through Staithes (was that via Robin Hoods Bay/Recar? A fantastically scenic line and very sad it was closed.) However, this is most definitely Scotland and the named train and loco history confirm this. It was certainly shedded at Perth for a long time, although there seem to be no records for the period September 1951 to April 1952. However, here it's carrying a Perth, 63A, shed plate and it was known to be a Perth loco from 1952 to 1964 when it moved to Aberdeen Ferryhill, from which shed it was withdrawn in September 1965, going to Motherwell Machinery & Scrap at Wishaw for disposal.
Any ideas where this would be? Regrettably the platform nameplate on the lamp is unreadable, even on the full def scan.
Note also that wonderful lorry on the extreme RHS of the shot. Can anyone identify from the small image? We'd consider that a period piece now, and if still in existence it would be preserved in it's own right.
This is simply a reframe of the above shot, cutting out most of the coach side from which the photo was taken. Better for it, I think.
Brian
This is standard 5 No 73008 on the "Bon Accord", Aberdeen – Glasgow Buchanan Street, 1948-1968 . At first glance this looked like somewhere on the line through Staithes (was that via Robin Hoods Bay/Recar? A fantastically scenic line and very sad it was closed.) However, this is most definitely Scotland and the named train and loco history confirm this. It was certainly shedded at Perth for a long time, although there seem to be no records for the period September 1951 to April 1952. However, here it's carrying a Perth, 63A, shed plate and it was known to be a Perth loco from 1952 to 1964 when it moved to Aberdeen Ferryhill, from which shed it was withdrawn in September 1965, going to Motherwell Machinery & Scrap at Wishaw for disposal.
Any ideas where this would be? Regrettably the platform nameplate on the lamp is unreadable, even on the full def scan.
Note also that wonderful lorry on the extreme RHS of the shot. Can anyone identify from the small image? We'd consider that a period piece now, and if still in existence it would be preserved in it's own right.
This is simply a reframe of the above shot, cutting out most of the coach side from which the photo was taken. Better for it, I think.
Brian
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Can the poster on the fence be read at all? If so it may give a clue.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Brian,
I think it's Stonehaven , second station south out of Aberdeen see here http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/04/50/35/4503530_0f55c5dd.jpg
Col.
I think it's Stonehaven , second station south out of Aberdeen see here http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/04/50/35/4503530_0f55c5dd.jpg
Col.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Yup, I'd go with that, the platform over the bridge is a give away, I kept looking for that feature further south around Perth and Stirling but nothing matched.
MD
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
You've done it again, chaps. Truck details and location. What more could a girl want?
Unfortunately, Dave, that poster does not resolve even on the hi def scan at 2400 dpi.
Interesting thing I just noticed in the reflection in the carriage window is the tail light of a coach. So where was that? I can't get my head around the coach being in the adjacent line to the train from which the photo has been taken which also has the loco heading the Bon Accord on it! Also, that lad by the platform entrance gate looks as though he's on his mobile phone. Back to the Future.
Thanks to all.
Brian
Unfortunately, Dave, that poster does not resolve even on the hi def scan at 2400 dpi.
Interesting thing I just noticed in the reflection in the carriage window is the tail light of a coach. So where was that? I can't get my head around the coach being in the adjacent line to the train from which the photo has been taken which also has the loco heading the Bon Accord on it! Also, that lad by the platform entrance gate looks as though he's on his mobile phone. Back to the Future.
Thanks to all.
Brian
