Chas's workbench

[Chas Levin]

Ensignia was my first thought.

And that's another excellent word for this type of thing - thank you!
Well, if nothing else, we've amassed what must be a fairly comprehensive list of terms for graphic identification devices, haven't we?

 

[Chas Levin]

It’s a monogram (OED - two or more intertwined letters). It is not a crest as that is a heraldic term referring specifically to the helmet/ coronet/ crown sitting above the shield on a coat of arms. The second BR emblem is a crest as it uses the crest from the BTC coat of arms, the first BR emblem was not a crest; it was a badge, emblem or logo.

Ian R

I think you may have removed any final doubts Ian, by invoking the OED: 'two or more intertwined letters' describes it perfectly, so simond's original suggestion of monogram must carry the day!

And 'emblem' is another nice related term…

Allowing for some differences, heraldic or otherwise, we have:

Logo, monogram, trademark, crest, badge, motif, cartouche, roundel, insignia and emblem.

Last orders, please?

 

[Ian Rathbone]

Insignia, not ensignia.

 

[Chas Levin]

Insignia, not ensignia.

Yes, 'ensignia' sounds a little too naval - thanks for flagging it up, Ian .
Corrected now in my previous post.

 

[adrian]

Personally I would say it was a monogram. Not from any classical derivation, but from my Mum, as a teacher, instilling a pedantic nature on the use of the correct usage of words. My understanding

• A Monogram - specifically is the use of initial letters to indicate ownership, for example personal items like bathrobes, handkerchiefs, briefcase etc which include your initials are a monogram. I suppose in someways applied to some Car companies as well, BMW, FIAT etc.
• A logogram is a symbol or mark to represent an entire word, for example "&" for ampersand.
• An Insignia is a badge or picture to indicate membership of a group, for example as a heraldic subset the BR lion and dartboard.

So the letters don't have to be entwined, the fact that it is the initial letters for ownership makes it a monogram, in my personal opinion of course!

 

[simond]

initial letters for ownership makes it a monogram

Ah, well, I disagree, if they are not entwined, the "mono", the essential "oneness" would be lost (that sounds dreadfully sounds like late night BBC2 pseudo-artistic bolleaux ).

Thus GWR as letters could be a trademark or insignia, but would surely be a trigram, whereas in the famous bench legs, the letters entwinded form a monogram.

monogram (n.)
"two or more letters intertwined," 1690s, from French monogramme or directly from Late Latin monogramma (5c.), from Late Greek monogrammon "a character formed of several letters in one design,"

 

[adrian]

from Late Greek monogrammon "a character formed of several letters in one design,"

as I said purely my opinion and will have to agree to disagree, as stated my opinion was not based on any classical derivation but purely on the current usage of the words. For me the "mono" is for "one design", nothing says the letters have to be intertwined to achieve that "oneness". Monogrammed handkerchiefs don't always have intertwined letters and I wouldn't refer to them as a trademark handkerchief or insignia handkerchief.

 

[Chas Levin]

I just asked my wife (a writer and English teacher) and her impression is also that they need to be intertwined to be a monogram, but I'm sure we've all seen handkerchiefs and shirts where they weren't and as adrian says, we'd still call them monogrammed.
It looks like the word originally meant that they were intertwined, but its usage has become looser, even as the letters have loosened from each other.…
Loving your use of the early Norman spelling there, simond!

…late night BBC2 pseudo-artistic bolleaux )…

 

[Osgood]

Now this is my idea of a Monogram:

 

[Chas Levin]

Now this is my idea of a Monogram:

View attachment 180403

Excellent! Have you built one, or is it on your to-do list? Beast of a rig…

 

[David Waite]

Hi Chas
I have just been reading through your workbench great modelling, the Lining on your LNER C12 is magnificent.
David.

 

[Chas Levin]

Hi Chas
I have just been reading through your workbench great modelling, the Lining on your LNER C12 is magnificent.
David.

Thanks David, very kind of you! I learned to use a ruling pen in the course of doing it - it's a very good way to learn, but time-consuming…

 

[John57sharp]

Now this is my idea of a Monogram:

View attachment 180403

10-4!

 

[Chas Levin]

A few more SNCF-related photos, from a day trip yesterday to Cannes:

I thought it interesting to see the Tricolore flags either side of the doorway at Nice station; there's clearly a different cultural connotation to displaying the national flag here, as you wouldn't usually expect to see the Union Jack used that way in the UK…

I can't say Cannes was quite our cup of tea (how English does that sound?!) but Nice is really lovely:


Right, that's enough barely railway-related posts: my next new posting will be to show progress on the IBG Lancia 3Ro, which was almost at the final assembly stage before we boarded the train for the Continent…

 

[Osgood]

I can't say Cannes was quite our cup of tea (how English does that sound?!) but Nice is really ........

 

[simond]

Cannes? Isn’t that where they found Shergar?

 

[Mick LNER]

Cannes is aptly named it needs to go in one. Spent a day there via a Med Cruise, I wont be going back !!

 

[oldravendale]

I used to have to go every year for the Film Festival. And people thought it was soooo glamourous.

Brian

 

[Chas Levin]

Excellent - that was always one of my favourite Fast Show characters - Jon Thompson nailed that type perfectly! That show doesn't seem to have lasted so well though, doesn't get repeated, younger generations don't know it: odd, I thought it was top stuff!
This week, I've been mostly eating Hornby!

 

[Chas Levin]

Cannes is aptly named it needs to go in one. Spent a day there via a Med Cruise, I wont be going back !!

Fully agree; we might well revisit Nice, but certainly not Cannes.
I can't resist a final 'goodnight' shot of Nice Port from tonight, sadly our last one here: