Computer Aided Wagonry

[Dog Star]

View attachment 11051

Hi Martin,
Something looks to have gone adrift with this drawing... in all previous drawings the horn guides have a slot running to the lower edge of the solebar and that is what one might expect (to permit the suspension to work). In this drawing the slot appears to have been replaced by a plate with a hole.

Or have I mis-understood something?

regards, Graham

 

[tomstaf]

Thanks Tom, I'm glad you like it - feel free to point out any problems if you see any! Are you managing to do much modelling at the moment?

Hi Martin,

I haven't done much lately. I've been getting lots of prototype measurements though ready for some more etched parts for my MK2s, 33, and the VEP.

How is the tractor coming on?

Tom

 

[Pugsley]

In this drawing the slot appears to have been replaced by a plate with a hole.
Or have I mis-understood something?

I think that the plate with hole you can see is actually the wheel through the gap in the axleguards. The virtual model has 3 hole disc wheels for convenience, as I'd drawn them up for another projects, they're only for clearances and part placement purposes, although I will have to include a disc on the etch to cover up the holes in the Slaters wheels.

 

[Pugsley]

Hi Martin,
I haven't done much lately. I've been getting lots of prototype measurements though ready for some more etched parts for my MK2s, 33, and the VEP.

How is the tractor coming on?

Cool, I look forward to seeing some of the results of those measurements

The 37 is coming on slowly, although I'm slowly acquiring all of the parts I need to get it finished. The vacuum chamber (for casting the brake shoes) should arrive this week, with any luck, and I'm now in possession of the DCC decoder and speaker.

The bogies are on the bench at present, willing me to sort out a couple of minor issues with the position of a couple of springs, which I've started but then decided to carry on with the vans for a bit, having remembered that they're supposed to be completed by October, and there's still an awful lot to do before the parts are created, let alone assembled!

 

[Dog Star]

I think that the plate with hole you can see is actually the wheel through the gap in the axleguards.

What was puzzling me is that one can see the edges / sides of two holes... one being for the nearer wheel and, presumably, oine for the farther wheel.

 

[Pugsley]

What was puzzling me is that one can see the edges / sides of two holes... one being for the nearer wheel and, presumably, oine for the farther wheel.

Ah yes, I see where you mean now. The angle that I've taken the screenshot from does allow the hole of the far wheel to be seen through one of the holes in the near one.

 

[Pugsley]

This is how things currently stand with the IZA project:


I've made a start on the doors, I'm currently working on the third layer, some of which can be seen in the pic above. The first layer has the openings only half etched, but the package I'm using seems to not display half cuts for some reason.

The second layer has fully etched gaps and the 3rd layer consists of the separate vertical ribs, with the roof ribs not yet added. The third layer will essentially be separate overlays, with the vertical ribs being the only parts to receive 4 layers.

I've also added the stanchions along the side, which strengthen the chassis frames at the ends, and supports the door gear along the rest of the wagon. The channel part of the door gear is present, above, which is 2mm U channel, I've yet to add the round part that sits underneath it.

Once the doors are done - unfortunately I need to modify the basic assembly into two variants, for the opposing corners, to get them to fit properly. Next job will be to rig up a form of internal support for the doors and roof, before starting on the roof - then it should really look like the real thing (with any luck!). I also need to draw up the centre support, once I'm happy with the doors and roof.

I put it through my renderer out of curiosity, and I'm quite pleased with what it came up with:


I might even have a go at a coloured version once the 3D part reaches completion. After that comes the tricky bit - converting the 3D parts into a 2D sheet of etchings, which I've never done before. Cue much scratching of head and a spot of RTFM training, I think!

Oh, and I also need to work out the springing, which I'm hoping to have as working leafs, a la MMP, but it's going to be tricky given the thickness of the parabolic springs. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[28ten]

I am not entirely familiar with the springs, but I think I see what you are doing with the doors, could you post a cross section? Can Alibre use derived parts for the variations? Im guessing that if you have used sheet metal you just unfold the parts. Personally I just 'export face to dxf' for a lot of simple things, or you should be able to set up a drawing with all the part views and export it to dxf and any changes made to the 3d model should propagate to the dxf, which is what I do for more complicated laser construction, when I am happy the whole lot is then opened in Autocad LT and layers etc sorted before sending to the etchers or laser.

 

[Dog Star]

What is the history of the prototype wagons? For example:- build date, number built, for what traffic, where found in the UK?

thank you, Graham

 

[Pugsley]

Thanks Cynric, I was going to do the DXF linked to the 3D model thing, as I'm almost certain I'll find something that needs changing just as I've finished doing the 2D sheet! I'll also give the section view a go, failing that I'll post another picture with all of the door layers different colours.

Graham - 100 sets were built between 1986 and 1987 by Duwag, allocated diagram E668, originally numbered 23 80 2794 000-099 and renumbered in both 1992 and 1999. My model represents the second half of the first batch from 051 (possibly 050 but I haven't found a photo of that to check) to 099 - there are a few detail differences between the early and late examples, principally the end supports, but there are other smaller differences. Later builds, diagrams E710 and E753, look similar, but they're wider and longer.

They've been seen pretty much all over the UK, both in domestic and international traffic, and carried a wide range of commodities including cider, paper and mineral water.

 

[BrushType4]

They've been seen pretty much all over the UK, both in domestic and international traffic, and carried a wide range of commodities including cider, paper and mineral water.

Including Tesco traffic from Wisbech to Livingston.

 

[Pugsley]

Including Tesco traffic from Wisbech to Livingston.

I didn't know Livingston was rail connected - you learn something every day!

Cynric - Here's a couple of section views, taken through the first rib on the door. The first layer needs a bit more work to include a section that folds up to the vertical and the second layer needs to be extended to meet it. Once that's done, I can proceed with the 3rd layer.

Inside:


And out:

 

[BrushType4]

I didn't know Livingston was rail connected - you learn something every day

haha, well come to think of it, Wisbech is not rail connected either for all practical purposes. The traffic went through Queen Adelaide to Mossend.

 

[28ten]

Im with you now. Interesting way that you have constructed it, I have yet to do much sheet folding so I would have made the basic solid shape, shelled it, and extruded/cut extra 'etch layers' as necessary, but you have a better picture of the construction.

I can guarantee that you will find something personally I just amend the dxf rather than faffing about with the 3d as it has served its purpose. this is the stage where working in 3d space in autocad is quicker, but being a bit slow I could never get to grips with AutoCad in 3d.

 

[Pugsley]

Im with you now. Interesting way that you have constructed it, I have yet to do much sheet folding so I would have made the basic solid shape, shelled it, and extruded/cut extra 'etch layers' as necessary, but you have a better picture of the construction.

I may try that for later attempts at this kind of thing, but for this one, seeing as I didn't (don't?) really know what I'm doing, I'm literally designing it how I'd build it, if you see what I mean.

 

[28ten]

I may try that for later attempts at this kind of thing, but for this one, seeing as I didn't (don't?) really know what I'm doing, I'm literally designing it how I'd build it, if you see what I mean.

I just take every short cut I can I get quite a few architects drawings in for making site models and they sure dont waste time drawing anything unnecessary

 

[mickoo]

I put it through my renderer out of curiosity, and I'm quite pleased with what it came up with:View attachment 11257

That's better, add some occlusion lighting to really show off the model , never could get on with simple screen shots of the model in the CAD package, nor I suspect can most people, its all about what the eye 'expects' to see, hence Dog Stars comments before, simply put the eye sees a detailed 3D model and 'expects' to see shadows, when it does not, then it becomes very confused and tries to make up its own idea of what the image should look like, often to the detriment of the whole. Every one has seen the square of steps that look like that they are always going up which ever side you look at it, the lack of shadows just adds to the illusion .

It'll be interesting to see how you transpose from 3D to 2D layout, that's the one big hurdle I've encountered before and finally resigned to simply working in 2D from the outset....with lots of scribbles and pencil and paper by my side .

Good work thus far, keep it up, would love to enter said competition and follow along your basic approach....just cannot decide on which prototype to model, grrr LOL.

 

[Dog Star]

Graham - 100 sets were built between 1986 and 1987 ......
They've been seen pretty much all over the UK.... and carried a wide range of commodities including cider, paper and mineral water.

Thank you for this information... given the dates the model will fit quite nicely with S7 models of Cl.37/4. Just how long is the queue waiting on news of availability?

regards, Graham

 

[Pugsley]

Thank you for this information... given the dates the model will fit quite nicely with S7 models of Cl.37/4. Just how long is the queue waiting on news of availability?

I don't think the queue's that long, but I'm not sure if I am going to make them available yet though. It will depend upon costs, order quantities of castings and deciding whether I want the hassle or not, I guess.

 

[28ten]

Dont forget packing, instructions, going to the post office etc in that list .