Crossing Vee

[paratom]

I recently attended Expo EM at Bracknell with a layout and found some time to talk to some of the demonstrators, one of which was demonstrating track building. As I am planning on building a layout myself any information on track building is useful. I touched upon the point of making crossing vees and the gentleman in question told me that he just filed the ends of the rail to the right angle. I was surprised by this answer as it is not the way the EM Gauge Society manual tells you to do it. I have a copy of Ian Rice's book on track building and his method involves bending the end of the rail. Can anyone tell me what advantage this method has as it seems more work and if it has the same look as the first method I can't see the point. I am using bullhead rail.

Thomas

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Hi Thomas,
I made a little jig (for an A5, it's a right angle triangle in 1:5 ratio), and filed the ends at the requisite angles. . Not sure why Iain did it that way!

Cheers

Jan

 

[J_F_S]

If you just file an angle on the rail, you are left with a slot in the middle due to the fact that the head and foot are thicker than the web which disappears first in consequence. The principle behind bending the rail first is to ensire that the web follows the centre-line right to the end of the rail. Therefore you bend it to half the angle so to speak.
The best way to understand this is to try both ways - the results of not bending the raillook so bad that I guarantee you will not even bother to finish the job off using that method!!

Personally I never bother with any kind of jig - they are more trouble than they are worth and a vice - and a decent quality file - is quite good enough.

 

[J_F_S]

couple more pics by way of illustration:-


I work in 4mm (P4) but in larger scales, you can get away with a lot less!!

Hope that helps,

Howard

 

[martin_wynne]

couple more pics by way of illustration:-
View attachment 215653View attachment 215654View attachment 215655

I work in 4mm (P4) but in larger scales, you can get away with a lot less!!

Hope that helps,

Howard

@J_F_S

Hi Howard,

Your diagram forgot to show the blunt nose:



The blunt nose width is 3/4" scale for bullhead (11/16" on GWR).

After filing the blunt nose on unbent filed rails the effect of the hollow web is very much reduced and hardly worth worrying about.

For the Templot 3D-printed plug track I have abandoned the entire concept of pre-fabricating a crossing vee. (Likewise Wayne Kinney on his Finetrax pointwork kits.)

The point and splice rails are inserted separately into the chairs (not necessarily at the same time). They can be filed accurately (without a bend) to an angle exactly match the chairs using the inexpensive 3D-printed filing jigs from Templot. They then fit snugly in the chairs. (If bent they won't fit.)

Soldering them isn't strictly necessary, but can done in situ after assembly using a smear of SMT paste (solder cream) in the web of the point rail. Then a touch with a dry soldering iron flashes the solder -- invisibly. The resin chairs can withstand soldering temperature for a short while.

For those who don't like soldering, a dab of epoxy on the underside of the rails after assembly works equally well.

Martin.

 

[paratom]

Thanks for the replies. Nice track work Howard your explanation was just what I was looking for. So for a 1:6 you would bend the ends of the rail to an angle of 4.75 degrees if I am correct. I will laser cut some angle jigs for this purpose. Do you silver solder the joint?

Thomas

 

[SimonT]

I suspect that none of the above is entirely correct if you want to build prototype track; this comment is unlikely to apply in the smaller scales. The jigs from the S7 group, available in S7 and FS, allow you to build crossings almost exactly like the real thing.
Instructions For Using Jigs - Scale 7 Group

 

[PhilH]

This is the way I do it, correct or not it works for me:

​

1. The rail is filed away to half its width for a suitable length depending on the angle of the Vee
2. Its then bent through 180 degrees at the mid point of the filed away section. If the bend is not too sharp at first then once bent if its squeezed in the vice to close the joint it can usually be done without breaking the rail. After fluxing the joint surfaces they are clamped together, the rails adjusted to the correct angle for the Vee and the joint silver soldered.
3. The excess rail is then filed away

If the rail is bent correctly as shown the web should continue up to the point of the Vee.

 

[J_F_S]

This is the way I do it, correct or not it works for me:

Well, I struggle to see in what way that is easier than the way the real thing does it! In particular, if you need to do anything finer than (say 1:9) you will have a hefty length of rail to manage and it is much easier to file along the rail to its end, rather than in its middle. Still if it works for you

 

[PhilH]

Still if it works for you

It sure does !

 

[J_F_S]

Nice track work Howard your explanation was just what I was looking for. So for a 1:6 you would bend the ends of the rail to an angle of 4.75 degrees if I am correct. I will laser cut some angle jigs for this purpose. Do you silver solder the joint?

Thomas

Thank you for the kind words.

Don't over think it!! You will (of course) be building your track on a template - hopefully created using Martin's excellent Templot! And I find that the template provides a sufficient visual guide for the angle.

The big thing to me (and I always say this whenever I demonstrate trackbuilding) - this is a skill rather than a theorectical excercise and skill ONLY comes with practice. So pick up a file and make a few hundred vees. Rail is very cheap after all! After you have made (and thrown away) a few dozen, you will get pretty good at the job!

If you find the use of a jig helps, then go ahead and use one. BUT if your track has 'flowing curves' you will have lots of irregular vees which the jigs do not cater for. And in the time it takes for your jig to come through the post, you can have made enough to acquire the skill not to need one!

I have silver soldered vees in the past - it has the advantage that you can then soft-solder the vee to the remainer of the crossing assembly without fear of melt-down, but I do not find it in any way essential. So if you already have the skill and tools for that then fine, but don't let the lack of those things stop you having a go at it. Maybe if you are making track for your guage 3 Duchess to traverse at 100mph ...

Don't want to put you off here, but I have to say that the switch blades are MUCH harder than the vees...

Hope you will report your progress!

Good Luck,
Howard

 

[martin_wynne]

If you find the use of a jig helps, then go ahead and use one. BUT if your track has 'flowing curves' you will have lots of irregular vees which the jigs do not cater for.

@J_F_S @paratom

Hi Howard, Tom,

Templot (free) can create FDM-printing STL files for filing jigs for any crossing angle. If your template has an unusual angle you can just go ahead and print an exactly matching jig:





The material cost is very low (under £2 per jig) and they are good for several dozen filed rails. If it does wear out it is easy to print a fresh one.

Full details at: Using the Templot rail filing jigs

Martin.