7mm David Andrews Princess - 6206 Princess Marie Louise
- Thread starter Rob Pulham
- Start date
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello Rob,
forgot to say in my last post that IIRC that the Lizzys had as small length of L angle between the top of the splashers and boiler (rear two axles only), if you want to fit this I think that I'd do it in two pieces one on top of the splasher and one on the boiler. I don't think that trying to curve L angle brass in three planes would be a good idea.
OzzyO.
forgot to say in my last post that IIRC that the Lizzys had as small length of L angle between the top of the splashers and boiler (rear two axles only), if you want to fit this I think that I'd do it in two pieces one on top of the splasher and one on the boiler. I don't think that trying to curve L angle brass in three planes would be a good idea.
OzzyO.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Thanks Paul,
I had noted that in photos, but the ones that I have are too indistinct to really tell what it was.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Sorry, I don't think that there are any angle fillers round the rear two sets of splashers. To me,the double lines shown on the clothing side view drawing are just the overlap where the indents attach to the clothing. The cross section drawings certainly do not show any angles.
If it were me, I'd first get the firebox correctly seated, adjusting the height, if necessary, with plastic card filler strips. I'd then carefully grind away the tops of the splashers till the boiler sits down to the correct height and plugs nicely onto the firebox. Then, with the boiler finally positioned, I'd cut away the boiler, inside the splashers to clear the wheels. That way, your boiler cut outs are guaranteed to match exactly the splasher spacing and profile. This would not be strictly to prototype as there should be a slight gap between the splasher tops and the curved section of the clothing indents, but it would avoid the risk of any unsightly exesive or uneven gaps resulting from slight mismeasurement or over enthusiastic cutting of the boiler.
Anyway, however you proceed, I wish you good luck getting it all seated nice and neatly.
Dave.
If it were me, I'd first get the firebox correctly seated, adjusting the height, if necessary, with plastic card filler strips. I'd then carefully grind away the tops of the splashers till the boiler sits down to the correct height and plugs nicely onto the firebox. Then, with the boiler finally positioned, I'd cut away the boiler, inside the splashers to clear the wheels. That way, your boiler cut outs are guaranteed to match exactly the splasher spacing and profile. This would not be strictly to prototype as there should be a slight gap between the splasher tops and the curved section of the clothing indents, but it would avoid the risk of any unsightly exesive or uneven gaps resulting from slight mismeasurement or over enthusiastic cutting of the boiler.
Anyway, however you proceed, I wish you good luck getting it all seated nice and neatly.
Dave.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Just getting back to the start of the boiler question, Rob was pondering how much adjustment might be needed to the two smokebox saddle castings. The bottom of the smokebox/front end of boiler (which are flush with each other) should be, near as damn it, level with the top of the footplate - well, 0.146 mm below to be precise. That would set a datum for the front and the firebox spigot would do the same at the rear. Just then a case of joining the two with the boiler shell. Simples!
The bottom of the rear end of the boiler will be about 2.4 mm below top of the footplate.
Of course, besides these theoretical dimensions, it is also necessary to check that the smokebox top is parallel with the footplate - just in case of any dimensional errors in the kit parts. I know, never been known.
Dave.
The bottom of the rear end of the boiler will be about 2.4 mm below top of the footplate.
Of course, besides these theoretical dimensions, it is also necessary to check that the smokebox top is parallel with the footplate - just in case of any dimensional errors in the kit parts. I know, never been known.
Dave.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello Rob,
it looks like I was talking out of my chuf after I got to the books and there's no L angle in sight in any photos that I can see.
6200 as new at Euston. No L angle.
46208 a bit later on but showing what looks like a riveted strip along the side of the boiler clothing and over the rear splasher.
Also note the details above and below the running plate.
ATB
OzzyO.
it looks like I was talking out of my chuf after I got to the books and there's no L angle in sight in any photos that I can see.
6200 as new at Euston. No L angle.
46208 a bit later on but showing what looks like a riveted strip along the side of the boiler clothing and over the rear splasher.
Also note the details above and below the running plate.
ATB
OzzyO.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Since my last post I haven’t had much time to spend on modelling but having tacked the cab on I did get to drilling and fitting the firebox to the footplate with self tappers so that I have a datum to work from for seating the boiler.
I am not sure how others have managed it but I am having real difficulty with the size of it seeing what’s level and what isn’t so I have resorted to nibble a little bit, fasten the foot plate to the chassis add the boiler/smoke box and then take a photo that I can study without trying to juggle to loco in my hands while squinting at it.
By taking a photo of each side and comparing them, I can immediately see that I need to take a little more off the left side middle splasher. This is because it’s not seating down flush with the front of the firebox at that side, but it is at the other. This means that it’s being pushed over to one side slightly, this is backed up by it appearing to seat on the secondary saddle at the right side but not at the left. And of course, looking at it from the front.
Useful things photos, and it is a slight pain assembling it and disassembling to take a bit more off but I can’t think of a better way of achieving what I need.
I am not sure how others have managed it but I am having real difficulty with the size of it seeing what’s level and what isn’t so I have resorted to nibble a little bit, fasten the foot plate to the chassis add the boiler/smoke box and then take a photo that I can study without trying to juggle to loco in my hands while squinting at it.
By taking a photo of each side and comparing them, I can immediately see that I need to take a little more off the left side middle splasher. This is because it’s not seating down flush with the front of the firebox at that side, but it is at the other. This means that it’s being pushed over to one side slightly, this is backed up by it appearing to seat on the secondary saddle at the right side but not at the left. And of course, looking at it from the front.
Useful things photos, and it is a slight pain assembling it and disassembling to take a bit more off but I can’t think of a better way of achieving what I need.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
I have got a height gauge but I hadn't thought of using it. Thanks for that and I will dig it out.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Thanks Dave, I had noted that myself.
Max M
Western Thunderer
I would have thought what you need is a comparator.
Could you use your mill with some wire in the chuck and bend it to touch a reference pont on one side of the boiler than turn the loco around and see where it is relative to the same reference point on the other side?
simond
Western Thunderer
You could do that but I’d use the height gauge!
this sort of thing
www.arceurotrade.co.uk
this sort of thing
Digital Height Gauges - Arc Euro Trade
Metric and imperial display. Sizes: 0-200mm and 0-300mm, Resolution: 0.01mm, Accuracy: ±0.04mm. ABS & preset buttons.
www.arceurotrade.co.uk
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Mine is like that, but analogue and imperial...You could do that but I’d use the height gauge!
this sort of thing
Digital Height Gauges - Arc Euro Trade
Metric and imperial display. Sizes: 0-200mm and 0-300mm, Resolution: 0.01mm, Accuracy: ±0.04mm. ABS & preset buttons.
3 LINK
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob,
it might just be the photo, but in the first photo above, the band around the firebox looks like it’s leaning slightly backwards towards the cab ? Have you got a small engineers set square ? As you could place it on the footplate and be able to check vertically against the firebox and boiler bands, just a thought.
Martyn.
it might just be the photo, but in the first photo above, the band around the firebox looks like it’s leaning slightly backwards towards the cab ? Have you got a small engineers set square ? As you could place it on the footplate and be able to check vertically against the firebox and boiler bands, just a thought.
Martyn.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Martyn,
Thankfully, it must just be a trick of the photo. A check with a flat square which sits flush with the firebox has them all vertical to the footplate both sides, phew!...
Thanks for the potential heads up though as when building 'you' don't always see wood for trees when you look at it constantly.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
As sometimes happens I had a little distraction from levelling up the boiler. While stripping the firebox off to adjust it to get it to sit down snugly, I noted that I hadn’t fitted parts 74E and 74F which are ‘L’ shaped rivet strips that fit around the rear splashers. I thought it best to fit them while I had the firebox off. Just to catch out the unwary, these are supposed to be handed but are in fact etched the same hand.
I did think about trying to press out the rivets from the face side so that I could use it upside down on the opposite hand but because its half etched, it made centring the rivet press on the half-etched rivets very difficult. In the end it was much easier to cut the leg off the ‘L’ and add it as two separate parts. Actually, you can barely see the joint when looking from above so it should be almost invisible from the ¾ side view once painted.
Then I took a little more off the firebox arches where they clear the rear splashers to get the firebox to sit properly on the footplate.
I also took a little more off the left hand middle splasher which has centred the boiler but it’s still a little high at the front. More needed off both sides.
I did think about trying to press out the rivets from the face side so that I could use it upside down on the opposite hand but because its half etched, it made centring the rivet press on the half-etched rivets very difficult. In the end it was much easier to cut the leg off the ‘L’ and add it as two separate parts. Actually, you can barely see the joint when looking from above so it should be almost invisible from the ¾ side view once painted.
Then I took a little more off the firebox arches where they clear the rear splashers to get the firebox to sit properly on the footplate.
I also took a little more off the left hand middle splasher which has centred the boiler but it’s still a little high at the front. More needed off both sides.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Before taking more off the middle splashers, I eased the cut outs and bottom of the boiler at the firebox end to get it to sit better against the front of the firebox it didn’t need much but it seemed to help. Then I removed some more from the middle splashers
and I also milled some more off the smokebox saddle to reduce its height. I have had off forum discussions with a couple of people who have built these and both said that they had to scratch build the front saddle as they couldn’t get the casting to sit low enough. Just as a precaution I knocked one up from an offcut of 0.7mm nickel.
At this point the scratch built one needs shortening.
I took a couple of photos with the replacement in place to see how it fit.
And finally for last night I took a couple more after trimming back the splashers a bit more and reducing the height of the saddle casting again – it’s getting there.
and I also milled some more off the smokebox saddle to reduce its height. I have had off forum discussions with a couple of people who have built these and both said that they had to scratch build the front saddle as they couldn’t get the casting to sit low enough. Just as a precaution I knocked one up from an offcut of 0.7mm nickel.
At this point the scratch built one needs shortening.
I took a couple of photos with the replacement in place to see how it fit.
And finally for last night I took a couple more after trimming back the splashers a bit more and reducing the height of the saddle casting again – it’s getting there.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
At this point there was 0.1mm difference in the height of the DA saddle casting and my scratched up one from nickel so I popped it in the mill for one last skim and removed the last 0.1mm. The saddle casting is now 0.7mm deep in the centre and that makes the bottom of the smokebox 0.3mm below the frame tops.
Now it was time to sit it on a sheet of toughened glass in lieu of not having a surface plate and checking with my height gauge to see if the smokebox is level.
Yeay!! It sits dead level.
In the last two you can just see that the smokebox is lower than the frames – just.
Now I just need to get the secondary saddle to fit and ultimately fasten it together. For now, a darkened room beckons…
Now it was time to sit it on a sheet of toughened glass in lieu of not having a surface plate and checking with my height gauge to see if the smokebox is level.
Yeay!! It sits dead level.
In the last two you can just see that the smokebox is lower than the frames – just.
Now I just need to get the secondary saddle to fit and ultimately fasten it together. For now, a darkened room beckons…