Dublingham Goods Station

Discussion in 'Layout Progress' started by 76043, 26 October 2017.

  1. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Ok, I may be run out of WT for this, so here goes! I think we have been lagging behind the US in terms of operation for many years, and I have always been inspired by Rev Peter Denny and Norman Eagles. When you start looking for information you realise there aren't that many books on the subject, an old CJF book, Bob Essery's books and a recent title from Wild Swan, seems to be about it. Some old BR rulebooks and general appendices also revealed that I may know about 'that' rivet on 'that' wagon, but did I know rule 2 for example? Once I delved in I realised there is so much to learn and that railways were run to get passengers and goods from A to B in a safe and efficient manner, then to make a profit.

    Then I rediscovered my old my old Hornby Dublo.

    Then what if operation takes precedence over rivets?

    Then what if I could operate my Hornby Dublo according to the rule book?

    Oh, dear, it's not looking good is it?

    So then...

    Tony Gee kindly supplied me with the last Buckingham Branch timetable (not the earlier one in the PECO book), and was happy for me to use the timetable for my 'ideas' as long as I did not republish the timetable.

    I then thought the Dublo wagons above the chassis still stand up today, and many are still seen on layouts, then, what about setting it in the late fifties just after the LMR takeover of the GCR?

    Maybe Peco code 100 track, with handbuilt third rail? Feedback control?

    What about a monitor showing the timetable with a full description of the trains and what they are doing?

    Then I started on the wagons, I looked at some old van kits and removed those old P4 wheels and stuck them on Dublo wagon chassis. A Parkside Fish van was then made with Dublo couplings and a Wrenn BR blue fish van repainted white.

    What? Are you trying to undermine all the postwar progress that has been made in railway modelling?

    NO, I've been a member of the 2mm Association for years, this is just something different and importantly for me brought back the fun. But I now have a shop load of P4 wagon wheels that could yet make it into the WT advertisement section.

    20170317_204814 (1).jpg

    Then much later...

    I fitted Romford 60:1 gears to two Wrenn 08 shunters which resulted in excellent slow speed running with ordinary DC, let alone my Gaugemaster HH.


    Then I started on the layout, I have designed a shunting problem for the milk loading gantry system. The siding can only load one tank at a time, meaning wagons need to be swapped in time for departure to Marylebone in order to adhere to Rev Peter Denny's timetable. This was a real shunting problem for Torrington where they could only load three tanks at a time.


    There are 14 goods trains in the daily timetable that went to and from Buckingham, it looks like I can make them all work on the track plan above.

    Ok, please whatever you think, this is not now, not ever meant to be disrespectful to Peter Denny's work, nor is it a joke entry, but is meant to show that operating to a timetable is possible by anyone and with any rolling stock.

    Tony Harris
    Last edited: 26 October 2017
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  2. geoff_nicholls

    geoff_nicholls Western Thunderer

    If we were to run you out of WT for this, it would be because you've reminded us what railway modelling is supposed to be about, and that those nice looking, but unprototypical features we've built into our layouts cannot be justified, and should be removed until they can be.
    Though your method of reminding us is a bit like a cold flannel in the face, shocking, but invigorating.
    Last edited: 26 October 2017
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  3. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer


    I like it, but then I'm familiar with the US-outline operation-led approach to railway modelling. It's true we tend to get stuck into the physical details rather than the operation, so why not t'other way around?

    I've always found prototypical operations interesting; one reason I have a short stack of various Southern working notices and appendices to refer to.

    I look forward to seeing how this progresses.

  4. jonte

    jonte Western Thunderer

    Luvly, Tony.

    For one not even at ‘average enthusiast’ level, this is right up my street.

    And if you are slung off WT, I’m starting a dirty protest.

    Bestest of luck,

  5. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Thank you all for your kind remarks, especially Geoff. It looks like I may not be run of WT just yet...

    It took me a long time to transcribe Peter Denny's timetable into Excel, but doing so reminded me how much of a giant in the hobby he was. Every train movement had a purpose, light engine moves, circuit working and wagon load flows.
  6. unklian

    unklian Western Thunderer

    Well done Tony, I will look forward to more, especially any explanation of the operation side of your project. I like your wagons, have you close coupled them some how or do my eyes deceive me ?
  7. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    20170413_151716_HDR-1.jpg 20170413_153633_HDR-1.jpg

    Hi Ian, cheers. The chassis are pure Dublo, I pushed them together for the shot, so it's deceiving. Attached are two pics, one is after painting and numbering the vans and the other is the perishable stock, which is a mixture of kit built and vanilla Dublo. The cameo layout will only allow four or five wagon trains.

    On the timetabling, what sort of info would you like to see? I have a basic excel linear pathways file, it's not a stringline, as such, but very nearly.

  8. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    No chance - not with posts like this. I like it.

    Always interested to learn about aspects I've not studied before so I will watch with interest and I'm grateful that you will be adding something new to the forum.
  9. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Thank you Adrian.

    Below is a link to Flickr of Vauxhall station in the 70's showing milk tanks being unloaded. The comments are well worth reading as it unearths a goldmine of information on the subject. Totally fascinating, but also it is entirely possible to be replicated in vanilla Dublo. I have everything but the Stove R as they are rare and expensive.

    I have done some research on why only bogie or 6 wheel vans were used, it may be that guards wanted a smoother ride and so staff would Marshall these vehicles for them. I had thought it was because of the stove, but some 4 wheel SR vans had stoves, but it seems after nationalisation Stove R's got around more and were preferred. But I state this as precautionary as this is information from the BR Yahoo group.

    Vauxhall milk delivery

    Attached Files:

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  10. Lyndhurstman

    Lyndhurstman Western Thunderer

    Nice work. Nice plan. Nice idea. Stick around :) What we do should be fun, as a first priority. If it's not fun, then it's real life. And there's enough of that to last a lifetime.

    Cough. I have a backlog of P4 wagonry to build for Watkins Wharf, so if you're looking to move them on, I may be interested :)


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  11. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Fascinating stuff about the milk deliveries to Vauxhall. I'm in the midst of building a milk train (two 6-wheel tankers done, another two to build plus two road-rail tankers. I'll probably use my GUV for the guard and churn traffic until I get my Stove R finished.

    This won't be used on a model of Vauxhall, but the principles of unloading will be exceedingly useful.

  12. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    I also scratched my head about the stove issue because this milk tank on the Bluebell is clearly stated as having a steam heat through pipe.

    Bluebell Railway Wagons - Southern Railway 6-wheeled glass-lined milk tank wagon No. 4430

    Clearly that 09 at Vauxhall didn't have a steam heat boiler, see list below of BR diesels with SHB's.

    RCTS Diesel Dilemmas - Steam Heat Generators - Diesel and Electric Locomotives

    Maybe not all tanks had through steam pipes? Either way, I am still unsure as to why.

    I also read that BR MK1 full brakes were not used because they didn't have a stove. (I'm not able to post evidence of this whilst writing this post)

  13. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

  14. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    I have no actual knowledge, but wonder if the through pipes were for when the milk wagons were attached to passenger trains. If operating only within a milk train I can't imagine that they'd need steam heating through pipes. In fact, of course, the 09 may just be shunting the milk wagons and it's absence of steam heating would therefore probably have no relevance.

  15. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    As well as providing guards accommodation could the stove van be there possibly for extra braking given the weight of a full tank car. This may have been necessary around Vauxhall given that the milk train would have had to fit in the paths of the normal intensive services with their rapid acceleration and deceleration rates. Hence the 09.

    How were the milk tankers unloaded? Was it under gravity or could the steam have powered a small pump to aid discharge?
  16. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Wasn’t it Cyril Freezer who made a comment about trains of ping-pong balls running under absolute block control...?

  17. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    The Nine Elms link above tells very nearly all, the Torrington milk arrived at Clapham Junction, then was split to go to up to three dairies. The Vauxhall part was tripped to Vauxhall, unloaded, then had to reverse at Waterloo then back to Clapham. One of the driver's accounts says the unloading was several hours during the night, another speaks of being careful with a train of milk tanks because of the potential for snapped couplings. I've not read anything about pumped milk, I get the feeling it was gravity. I think the steam heat pipe was probably for attachment to passenger trains, although mixed trains were subsequently banned by BR in later years.
  18. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    For @unklian - attached is my timetable with an initial track occupancy plan, semi-stringline. My track plan doesn't include a run round loop or brake van sidings for three reasons. One, they are assumed to be offstage, two, there isn't any room, and three, looking at the Buckingham track plan, the run round is only near the perishable depot, everything else requires complex shunting across the main lines.


    Attached Files:

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  19. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    I've just completed two new unfitted wagons, an ex-LMS all steel van, made from a Cambrian kit, that has gone from a reasonably accurate 9' P4 wheeled chassis to a Hornby Dublo late plastic wagon chassis that has gained an extra foot in the wheelbase department. #embarrassedface.

    The 21T mineral is the modern Hornby/Airfix GWR Felix Pole body on an old Dublo ICI Chlorine wagon chassis, that is actually quite prototypical with a surprisingly good representation of BR slotted link 12' chassis brake gear. (On the other side)

    Model master transfers to complete with rattle can paint finish and separate van roof for painting.

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  20. Threadmark: 3 rail track - first panel

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Ok, here's the first track panel, constructed from one PECO code 100 setrack panel, with PECO individulay Pandrol clips and code 75 rail for the centre rail. The code 75 rail is a fraction lower than the running rail height, so I may use code 83 to aid track cleaning. The setrack base is polystyrene so glues perfectly with liquid poly. The nose of my nearly finished black 08 can be seen sneaking into shot.