ETCHING

[Tony Overton]

Can I ask, when placing etching orders do you wait until you've enough parts to fill an A4 size sheet or do you send off orders for A5 or even less size sheets? Is it cost effective to place small sheet orders?
Cheers
Tony

 

[neaston]

I use PPD and I never send anything less than A4. Their standard depth is 300mm less allowance so 280mm deep and length to suit.
Nick

 

[Mike W]

You can send smaller areas and ask them to step-and-repeat across the sheet. That fills the sheet.

PPD is one option but I'd also ask Photo Etch Consultants and Grainge and Hodder. I use all of them, but most recent;y the latter.

Mike

 

[Tony Overton]

Step-and-repeat, not come across that before, certainly sounds worth investigating that.

 

[Longbow]

What do they charge for an A4 etch please?

 

[simond]

I can’t remember the exact numbers but there’s a charge for preparing the artwork - maybe 50 quid, and a charge per sheet dependent on size and thickness. From memory the 1mm A4-ish sheets we use at work are 20-odd quid apiece. A one-off is therefore a relatively expensive proposition.

 

[Oz7mm]

PPD publish their charges on the website. They are more flexible in terms of doing smaller sheets at pro rata rates. I haven't dealt with Photo Etch for a few years but they used to have, and may still have, a standard charge based on an 18" x 12" sheet. I have recently been using Grainge & Hodder for one order and they have been very helpful.

The charges for artwork preparation seem to differ depending on what you give the etcher. I used to follow the format for old time hand drawn artwork of red, black, blue on a CAD drawing but that gives the etcher some work so I now provide the front and rear films as two separate drawings files. There is some guidance for this on the PPD website

John

 

[Tony Overton]

The reason for my question is that I'm aiming to send an order to PPD but don't have 100% confidence in my actual CAD drawing ability and if I end up sending an A4 size sheet order it could turn out to be an expensive mistake. I need to learn but I'd prefer to send a much smaller size order and then if my drawings product a sheet of scrap brass then it won't be an expensive one.

 

[JimG]

I send test etches to PPD on what I believe was/is? their minimum size of around four inches by twelve inches which was cheaper than A4 size, but not that much since preparation was the major part of the charge. I also followed their recommendations for a CAD file with a black colour drawing of both sides to keep the setup charges as low as possible. I drew the etch in the "traditional" red and blue colours, which helped me get all the parts and tabbing correct, then created copies on new layers in black.

Jim.

 

[neaston]

I send all my drawings as EPS files front and back. Black to be etched white not etched.
Also with a 100mm line horizontally and vertically so it is correctly scaled.
Nick

 

[Dave Sutton]

I use PPD. I use the smallest possible area and provide them with front and back. (A loco is always larger than their minimum size) it's easier to just ask for multiple copies than make the sheet bigger.

Sending a small etch for the first time would be approx £50 (set up fee, sheet cost & postage, vat)

 

[Mike W]

One suggestion Tony. For what you are doing I suggest you go for thin brass, probably 12 thou. The thicker you go the more distortion there will be for character shapes. I know the thinner material will mean the relief is less and painting will be more difficult (beyond my abilities!) but at least the letter forms will be better.

My order this month from G&H for two sheets of 9in x 6in in 12thou nickel silver including the tooling, the step-and-repeat cost, post and VAT was £83.

You could send the CAD file to somebody on here for a peer review - or Mr.B at Derby we spoke of recently, who is an expert.

Mike

 

[PhilH]

I've used PPD Ltd a couple of times and found them very helpful. They give details of exactly how the artwork should be done on their website, but if you can't do it exactly as they require they will carry out the extra work at a reasonable cost. If you are using a CAD program do as much as you can yourself and send it to them in a file format they can work from with any other drawings,sketches or descriptions to show the result you require. I think if I remember rightly they did send me a copy of their finished artwork to check it covered everything before they did the actual etching.
I've also used their laser cutting service to produce coupling rods in mild steel, and for this you only need an outline drawing.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I have now use G&H but I have also used PEC they were about the same price for a A4 test etch. My Last test etch, for my new automatic couplings, worked out at £59 for to sheets of A4 18thou (0.48mm) N/S, including postage.

Just a note of caution different etchers require different ways of doing the CAD artwork PEC require a top and bottom layer where G&H require through, top and bottom.

Marc

 

[LarryG]

Other than passing my ideas and requirements to the CAD man, I have nothing to do with CAD artwork or the requirements for etching. I have used all three etchers over the years.

But etch thickness is my domain. When initially doing Stanier coaches, interior seats were on 10thou for lightness, sides 12 thou, floor ends and underframe 16thou and solebars/stepboards 22thou. Idealistic and expensive, so I learned the hard way! Thereafter, a whole coach was etched on 16thou. It might seem thick for a Stanier or GWR flush sided coach, but in reality it isn't seen on a painted model. The only thing I specify is not to over-etch as I dont want coach sides falling apart at door lines.

 

[Tony Overton]

Thanks every one for your respective suggestions, experiences with various etching firms, and views on the best way forward, it is much appreciated.

I like the idea of peer review.

It is one of those cases where I know exactly what I want, I now have access to reliable drawings and photographs, but am struggling to know how best to obtain the parts I would like. May be others have the same problem with this and other areas of modelling.

My CAD drawings will be, when completed, a mixture of 7mm scale private owner wagon builders/owners plates, Midland Railway number and registration plates, plus parts to build an 1890's MR tank wagon, all requiring two different thicknesses of brass - looking at the material available from PPD may be I'm best with 0.45mm (17 thou.) for the components and 0.25 or 0.30mm (9.8mm or 11.8mm) for the plates.

Tony

 

[Mike W]

"1890's MR tank wagon" !! And with etchings you might be able to re-scale it later .. upwards!

Mike

 

[Marc Dobson]

I did the Midland creosote tank in 7mm about 17 years ago as a kit, still available i should add. All the parts for the tank, tank supports etc were etched in 18thou brass. For 7mm stuff I wouldn't really go below that unless is something like number plates.

Marc

 

[AndyB]

"1890's MR tank wagon" !! And with etchings you might be able to re-scale it later .. upwards!

Mike

I've considered a MR tank wagon in G3, but rejected it on the basis that it might not have a great market. The MR only ever built 71 tank wagons, and 5 of these were rebuilds (old creosote tanks mounted on 12T underframes for fuel use) .
Of the original 66, 12 were gas storeholder wagons, 24 Creosote tanks, 2 Petroleum tanks and 28 Gas Tar tanks.

Andy

 

[AndyB]

looking at the material available from PPD may be I'm best with 0.45mm (17 thou.) for the components and 0.25 or 0.30mm (9.8mm or 11.8mm) for the plates.

What level of detail are you expecting on the plates? Bear in mind that the thicker the material, the more 'sideways' etching you get, losing definition on very small details (e.g. rounding off the ends of letters)
The picture shows some plates I did for G3 (nearly double the scale for 7mm) - these were on 12 thou material.
Andy