4mm Foamboard in a box

Tim Hale

Western Thunderer
Pottendorf1b.jpg.12fbccd39e374b0b373000a086834be3.jpg

Hi,

A few months ago, I acquired two RUB 77ltr Christmas Tree containers, they are ideal for transporting and storing layout modules but weight is a problem, maybe foamboard is the solution?


In the Jan 2020 issue of RM there is another article by Keith Harcourt describing the use of Kappaboard for baseboards, a very helpful guide. In lieu of genuine Kappaboard, I bought a pack of 5mm foamboard from Hobbycraft and I intend to follow Keith's principles except to use some 25mm polybead insulation to add rigidity without any noticeable weight penalty. Keith suggested hardboard bases for the track subroad bed but I have some lightweight aeromodelling plywood that can take screws for the point actuation. The track will be the timeless combination of PCB turnouts with RTP plain BH track.


The major restriction is the size, the containers have an internal dimension of 1135 long x 232 wide x 340 deep or in old money 44.68" x 9,1" x 13.38". Rather than using the SMS baseboard kit which uses the 232 /9.1" as the width, instead my boards will slide in sideways in order to take full advantage of the 340/13.38". As height will be restricted, there will be a full depth backscene that will be removable.


Has anyone used foamboard for baseboards, was it successful and any comments, please? Another question is the use of small turnout actuators, the available undercroft will be no more than 50mm, this precludes Tortoises etc. and I need to use some form of locking turnout acuator - any suggestions, please.


Please, ignore the scale of the sketch, it is purely for illustrative purposes and it is doubtful whether it will have any passenger traffic.

Thank you
 

Tim Birch

Active Member
Pottendorf1b.jpg.12fbccd39e374b0b373000a086834be3.jpg

Hi,

A few months ago, I acquired two RUB 77ltr Christmas Tree containers, they are ideal for transporting and storing layout modules but weight is a problem, maybe foamboard is the solution?


In the Jan 2020 issue of RM there is another article by Keith Harcourt describing the use of Kappaboard for baseboards, a very helpful guide. In lieu of genuine Kappaboard, I bought a pack of 5mm foamboard from Hobbycraft and I intend to follow Keith's principles except to use some 25mm polybead insulation to add rigidity without any noticeable weight penalty. Keith suggested hardboard bases for the track subroad bed but I have some lightweight aeromodelling plywood that can take screws for the point actuation. The track will be the timeless combination of PCB turnouts with RTP plain BH track.


The major restriction is the size, the containers have an internal dimension of 1135 long x 232 wide x 340 deep or in old money 44.68" x 9,1" x 13.38". Rather than using the SMS baseboard kit which uses the 232 /9.1" as the width, instead my boards will slide in sideways in order to take full advantage of the 340/13.38". As height will be restricted, there will be a full depth backscene that will be removable.


Has anyone used foamboard for baseboards, was it successful and any comments, please? Another question is the use of small turnout actuators, the available undercroft will be no more than 50mm, this precludes Tortoises etc. and I need to use some form of locking turnout acuator - any suggestions, please.


Please, ignore the scale of the sketch, it is purely for illustrative purposes and it is doubtful whether it will have any passenger traffic.

Thank you
I have used Foamboard from Hobbycraft for two layouts which went to exhibitions. The entire board and backscene were constructed from foamboard and I glued it all together with a hot glue gun. The best way is to treat it as if you are using thin plywood. One board, including a short fiddle yard, was about 5 feet long. The real point to watch is the fragility of the extremities of the boards, and the lack of weight can at times be a disadvantage. The larger layout ended up with some additional stiffening with small section strip wood along the back, but the smaller one was designed to fit in an Ikea storage box. I think that your use of the Christmas tree boxes would remove the need for extra strength or protection. Point control was by simple sliders and wire in tube, with microswitches built in to change polarity. However, since then of a couple of layouts I have used the 'Bullfrog' manual point control from Fast Tracks in Canada. These are basically a laser cut assembly with a microswitch built in and a spring loaded ball bearing to hold the point over in each direction. They work out at about the same price as a servo operated point mechanism. Control from the edge of the board is by sliding tube, as used in r/c aircraft, and can be duplicated at both sides of the board if required. The under board depth is about 52mm. They are screwed underneath the baseboard, so the idea of using thin plySDC11708.JPG as a roadbed would be a good one.
 

Tim Hale

Western Thunderer
Tim, many thanks for your encouraging response.
The 2000 (not 2020) RM article does emphasis the need for proper protection and sufficient bracing for the boards, a layer of 25mm polybead insulation is both light and rigid but is only part of the construction.

The decision to limit our purchases to Hobbycraft board and polybead is solely driven by availability in West Dorset (remember lockdown) therefore care will be taken in the construction not to use the boards as a structural item for legs etc. Instead freestanding trestles will be used which does rather negate the lightweight concept but again, it is driven by availability. Although, we just spotted the ironing board, a much lighter alternative, two should be sufficient.

Not sure on turnout actuation, we are still using Peco solenoids and Tortoise motors on the permanent layout therefore a rethink is needed, for example will whatever we use fit in the 50mm undercroft? Where is there any information on the use of aeromodelling actuators, unfortunately, we seemed to be utterly ignorant of such developments.

Thanks once more



 
Pragmatic decisions

Tim Hale

Western Thunderer
Hi,

Two important related events, MR April '19 just dropped through the letter box and I have spent the last hour marvelling at Rob's effort. Just spotted the use of code 75 streamline, a practice that I vowed to avoid but many years ago I was equally impressed by Ralph Burrow's Wanhurst in MRJ 174 published in early 2007 which used a combination of streamline turnouts and RTP plain BH track.

MRJ174.jpg

A pragmatic choice would be to use Ralph's idea and to recycle my stock of Peco solenoid turnout actuators with added microswitches thus solving the problem of failing manual dexterity (Parkinsons) and lack of depth under the baseboards.

Finally, a trip to B&Q is planned

 

jonte

Western Thunderer
As Tim mentioned in his post, and from the video in my previous post, you can see that they’re Canadian manufactured and although I’ve not looked, not sure whether they’re available in U.K.

I seem to recall that there was a UK supplier, but whether or not the business is still going is anyone’s guess but might be worth a search?

As you can see from the video, they’re quite simple mechanically, so during my American HO modelling period, I had a go at making something similar ( I should stress that I cannot take credit for the design which was solely that of a fellow modeller from Germany who urged me to have a go, despite me not being in the least bit handy).

It was quite some time ago, I’m afraid, so my recollection of what was required is sketchy, but hopefully the attached photos should give you an idea of the parts and assemblage.

Photo 1

The plate to the left of the picture is just one of those aluminium door plates available from the likes of B&Q.

The body is a plain and simple steel ‘L’ bracket which you can get anywhere (this one, I recall, was just recovered from the bottom of my toolbox and was rescued from a job long since forgotten around the home, thinking it might one day come in handy).

The two small holes in the vertical part were drilled to take the screws intended to secure it to the baseboard below the turnout.

The steel wire was purchased from a local model R/V which is bent to slot into one of two small drilled holes at its base, the top slotted into another small drill hole the vertical part of the bracket (dimensions aren’t critical but if you look, you can see that the hole is in line with those in the horizontal part of bracket and rotating plate/lever cut from the aforementioned aluminium door protector/plate). The top of the wire would eventually be slotted through a hole in the tie bar to switch it.

The pilot hole at the bottom of the lever was there to take the operating arm (probably was going to connect it to a wooden knob of some sort protruding from the baseboard edge via a steel wire/wooden rod etc perhaps attached via the brass inserts of a choc-bloc connector).

E4FF9F1E-8213-41C0-B08F-F81A50F7CFA1.jpeg

Photo 2

Another view.

The nut and bolt/washers available in packs from any hardware shop (mine again were lying around my tool box which is more or less redundant).

40D92188-7F87-4319-BE62-D45B06D9EB73.jpeg


Photo 3

The drilled hole seen to the rear of the bracket just below the nut and bolt, was the location for a ballbearing (I think I bought these from a well known online auction site for a nominal fee ( can’t find them at the minute, sorry) but they came in a round plastic container with a clear lid, as per lace pins - I’m sure you know what I mean. Can’t recall the size, but they don’t need to be very large, and the idea was that it sits in this hole to the front of the bracket, wedged twixt surface of bracket and swivelling aluminium lever.

I didn’t finish the job, I seldom do, but the next point in construction was to locate the bracket below the turnout and mark the end positions of the switch rails on the aluminium lever. The whole shebang could then be removed and the marked holes drilled out, so that when the point was thrown, the travel of the lever would be restrained by the ballbearing locating in one of the adjacent slots in the lever. And of course, vice versa.

Perhaps the accuracy of the drilled holes which receive the ballbearing is not too essential for RTR sprung tiebars, but these were intended for some homemade points I’d assembled, so more care would have been called for here.

A drop of lubricant and I’m sure it would all work swimmingly, and I suppose the addition of a suitably sized spring between the ball bearing and the bracket surface would be a belt and braces approach, but as I recall, Kurt didn’t feel it necessary.

2DF3FD33-06D3-4243-850E-DB8B0F9286E1.jpeg

I suppose if you build it as per the photos, you could just make a list of the aeronautical bits n bobs used on the Bullfrogs to operate them as per the video, and purchase them online.

My local model shop has them in stock, but unfortunately, the Pandemic has put paid to that.

Jonte.
 

NHY 581

Western Thunderer
Hi,

Two important related events, MR April '19 just dropped through the letter box and I have spent the last hour marvelling at Rob's effort. Just spotted the use of code 75 streamline, a practice that I vowed to avoid but many years ago I was equally impressed by Ralph Burrow's Wanhurst in MRJ 174 published in early 2007 which used a combination of streamline turnouts and RTP plain BH track.

MRJ174.jpg

A pragmatic choice would be to use Ralph's idea and to recycle my stock of Peco solenoid turnout actuators with added microswitches thus solving the problem of failing manual dexterity (Parkinsons) and lack of depth under the baseboards.

Finally, a trip to B&Q is planned


That's kind of you to say so. The photos of both layouts were taken by Chris Nevard in February 2018. Of the two I think Sheep Lane comes across better in the article. Mutton was not really the finished article. There were some changes made after Chris's visit, most notably the removal of the large signal box and its replacement with a ground frame. I also added a small goods shed to mask the exit/entrance to the left hand fiddle yard. Both the ground frame and the goods yard were adapted from Bachmann Scenecraft buildings.

But I've just dug out the article and apart from a few inaccuracies in the text, it comes across well.

Rob.
 

Tim Birch

Active Member
The link to the Canadian site is the one that attracted me to using these actuators. I don't think that there is a UK supplier as I have ordered them twice straight from Canada. The second time, because I ordered a few and the package was bigger, the vigilant Customs picked it up and so it cost me a bit more! I have a spare one made up and if you send me a private message, I would be happy to send it to you. The underboard depth which I quoted is at the mid point of the throw and so at rest at either end is less than to 50mm you have. If using trestles it may be possible to position them to avoid the actuators. As for r/c model aircraft supplies a good source is Model Shop Leeds. This is a retail shop but with an increasing on-line service.
 

NHY 581

Western Thunderer
Rob,

Why did you decide not to add a run round to the fiddleyard?

and

What coupling system did you use?

Thank you

A combination of lack of space at home and as Mutton was to be an exhibition layout, I wanted to operate from the front. Each fiddle yard is a 3ft long shelf with two sidings on each. It's enough for the kind of service I run. At exhibitions I have two passenger services made up of an Adams Radial and a single coach. The third siding is occupied by a goods service, normally a Radial and three or four wagons plus brake van. The fourth siding is left empty.

In addition, as per all my layouts, I can set up in the dining room and play trains.....

By couplings, I presume we are referring to stock rather than coupling the boards. I use tension locks and are happy with them. Anyone looking at my layouts can see it's all RTR stock, ready to plant buildings and off the shelf track. In other words, they demonstrate what you can do with readily available items.

Rob.
 
Last edited:

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Hi all

For my Rob @NHY 581 inspired little side project I have experimented with using servos and a proprietary servo controller to operate points and signals. The controller isn't cheap but the servos are, so the two offset each other.

The servo controller was from Megapoints and will operate up to 12 servos.
IMG_20201221_202615.jpg

The servos themselves were mounted in 3d printed brackets which I found on eBay.
IMG_20201230_141651.jpg

Switches were mounted in a homemade panel, I used small on-off switches for everything.
IMG_20201230_142645_1.jpg
All the cables used for the servos were off the shelf premade leads with plugs and sockets fixed. This saved much soldering and made everything plug and play.

I'm now thinking of using the same system on my 7mm layout instead of Tortoise units.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Hi all

For my Rob @NHY 581 inspired little side project I have experimented with using servos and a proprietary servo controller to operate points and signals. The controller isn't cheap but the servos are, so the two offset each other.

The servo controller was from Megapoints and will operate up to 12 servos.
View attachment 137942

The servos themselves were mounted in 3d printed brackets which I found on eBay.
View attachment 137940

Switches were mounted in a homemade panel, I used small on-off switches for everything.
View attachment 137941
All the cables used for the servos were off the shelf premade leads with plugs and sockets fixed. This saved much soldering and made everything plug and play.

I'm now thinking of using the same system on my 7mm layout instead of Tortoise units.

Many thanks for posting, Chris.

May I ask: do you remove the spring from the Peco points or can the servos be used with it still in situ (asking for a friend;)?

Many thanks,

Jonte

Edit for emoji which I hope will work this time :(
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Many thanks for posting, Chris.

May I ask: do you remove the spring from the Peco points or can the servos be used with it still in situ (asking for a friend;)?

Many thanks,

Jonte

Edit for emoji which I hope will work this time :(

I removed the spring to get away from the clunk click. I think the servos are powerful enough to shift the blades with the spring still in though.
 

jcm@gwr

Active Member
The reason for the springs, is to keep the blades tight to the rails, which solenoids can't do.
The servos will (like most slow motion motors), so the springs are redundant and should be removed.
 

Tim Hale

Western Thunderer
Out of the rabbithole and back on track.

Thanks again to Tim Birch for guidance on foamboard. It might be of interest that Hobbycraft also offer a slightly more expensive ‘black foamcore’ board which is more resilient to water and more robust.

Thank you



 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Out of the rabbithole and back on track.

Thanks again to Tim Birch for guidance on foamboard. It might be of interest that Hobbycraft also offer a slightly more expensive ‘black foamcore’ board which is more resilient to water and more robust.

Thank you



In this pleasant backwater that is Western Thunder, Tim, you’ll find that threads tender wander, but none of us seems to mind.
 
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