For those with a love of Teak - Antimacassars, colour and style?
- Thread starter Dog Star
- Start date
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
An opportunity for every WTer to offer advice on "how to" 
.
As we are building two brake carriages from JLTRT kits there are some aspects which are NQLTRT and can benefit from a dose of TLC. This post is about the door which divides the van area from the passenger area... as can be seen at the RH end of this BTK D114 interior:-
The same scenario exists with the BCK D175. What we have here is a corridor door with glazing above a matchboard panel... my instinct is that the top and bottom portions ought to be panelled and that is the style shown in this LNER drawing (from Dave of York via LNER forum).
Being new to this carriage building in brass game... how can I make a "panelled door", as in this drawing, with panelling which is similar to the JLTRT etching of the corridor screen?
thank you, Graham
.As we are building two brake carriages from JLTRT kits there are some aspects which are NQLTRT and can benefit from a dose of TLC. This post is about the door which divides the van area from the passenger area... as can be seen at the RH end of this BTK D114 interior:-
The same scenario exists with the BCK D175. What we have here is a corridor door with glazing above a matchboard panel... my instinct is that the top and bottom portions ought to be panelled and that is the style shown in this LNER drawing (from Dave of York via LNER forum).
Being new to this carriage building in brass game... how can I make a "panelled door", as in this drawing, with panelling which is similar to the JLTRT etching of the corridor screen?
thank you, Graham
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Dikitriki
Flying Squad
By using a P Cutter. It's what I used to skrawk and scribe lines on my wagon build.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olfa-Heavy-...8&qid=1417294528&sr=8-8&keywords=olfa+cutters
Richard
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
+1 for the Olfa cutter, and the blades last for ages when scoring brass, despite being designed for plastics.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Another +1 for the Olfa cutter Graham - I have had one of mine since 2010 and it still has the same blade after building Severn and lot's of other cutting and scoring since. I like it so much I bought a second one to stop me having to cart it to the cottage and back.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Here are some of the third class seats for the Gresley stock. First is a photo of the seat in base colour over primer:-
These seats were lit by a "daylight" lamp and the photograph is brighter / lighter than the actual colouring (look at how the colouring of the cutting mat has been washed out}. I have tried to replicate the colour of a maroon cloth from the late 1930s, advised by the Good Lady, and mixed paint using Games Workshop acrylics; in this case I have used Khorne Red and Doombull Brown (1:1) over Chaos Black spray. Two or three coats of the mixed colour have been required to achieve a consistent coverage.
As these seats are to be included in a coach set of the circa 1948 period I have darkened the seat colour to represent the wear (dirt) from the WWII period and to hint at shadows. The darkened colouring has been done by use of a Games Workshop wash ( Agnox Earthshade) run into the crevises and the turn-under of the headrest. The wash tends to pool in the cracks and where the brush is removed from the seat surface so there has been a learning exercise in how to apply the wash to avoid a tide mark. I am pleased with the effect so far and recognise that I need to experiment with different techniques for applying the shading.. For example:- getting dirt / shading into the join between arm-rest and seat back. There is plenty of opportunity to improve as there are at least another 16 seat mouldings to paint.
Postscript:- after discussing third class seating for Gresley teaks with @Rob Pulham I think that I ought to add a reminder about the shape and colour of these seats because to follow the same route as us could be wrong for someone else's period.
a) the seat shape in this post is appropriate for stock built after circa 1935 and specifically stock with an angle iron underframe, the seat shape is not suitable for stock (with truss-rod underframe) built before circa 1935 unless the coach is depicted in post 1936 condition.
b) the upholstery colour is intended to be a simple interpretation of material used by Thompson for new build circa 1944 on the assumption that our third class compartments have been re-trimmed at some point after that date. The material used by Thompson, seen in a photograph referenced in an earlier post, is floral in style and I have tried to interpret the base colour of the material without representation of the pattern.
These seats were lit by a "daylight" lamp and the photograph is brighter / lighter than the actual colouring (look at how the colouring of the cutting mat has been washed out}. I have tried to replicate the colour of a maroon cloth from the late 1930s, advised by the Good Lady, and mixed paint using Games Workshop acrylics; in this case I have used Khorne Red and Doombull Brown (1:1) over Chaos Black spray. Two or three coats of the mixed colour have been required to achieve a consistent coverage.
As these seats are to be included in a coach set of the circa 1948 period I have darkened the seat colour to represent the wear (dirt) from the WWII period and to hint at shadows. The darkened colouring has been done by use of a Games Workshop wash ( Agnox Earthshade) run into the crevises and the turn-under of the headrest. The wash tends to pool in the cracks and where the brush is removed from the seat surface so there has been a learning exercise in how to apply the wash to avoid a tide mark. I am pleased with the effect so far and recognise that I need to experiment with different techniques for applying the shading.. For example:- getting dirt / shading into the join between arm-rest and seat back. There is plenty of opportunity to improve as there are at least another 16 seat mouldings to paint.
Postscript:- after discussing third class seating for Gresley teaks with @Rob Pulham I think that I ought to add a reminder about the shape and colour of these seats because to follow the same route as us could be wrong for someone else's period.
a) the seat shape in this post is appropriate for stock built after circa 1935 and specifically stock with an angle iron underframe, the seat shape is not suitable for stock (with truss-rod underframe) built before circa 1935 unless the coach is depicted in post 1936 condition.
b) the upholstery colour is intended to be a simple interpretation of material used by Thompson for new build circa 1944 on the assumption that our third class compartments have been re-trimmed at some point after that date. The material used by Thompson, seen in a photograph referenced in an earlier post, is floral in style and I have tried to interpret the base colour of the material without representation of the pattern.
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Dog Star
Western Thunderer
What is not too obvious in the photos of the preceding post is that the base colour is dead matt whilst the shading has a sheen. The difference in light reflection is not a problem when the seats are viewed broadside in natural light, what has become apparent is that viewing a seat at an angle or under tungsten lighting (the model might include lighting) shows the "hard" edge between matt and shiny surfaces.
After talking to Adrian (@Buckjumper) this morning I intend to try to "flat" the shaded areas by use of either an acrylic matt varnish or just acrylic matt medium.
After talking to Adrian (@Buckjumper) this morning I intend to try to "flat" the shaded areas by use of either an acrylic matt varnish or just acrylic matt medium.
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richard carr
Western Thunderer
Graham
I doubt anyone one will notice once they are in the coach.
Richard
I doubt anyone one will notice once they are in the coach.
Richard
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Heather will know...
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Third class rules for the current carriage builds.... outnumbering the first class by about 8:1 in terms of compartments so work on the third class seating takes precedence. These first class seat mouldings sneaked under the radar to experiment with colour and shading.
Base coat of Games Workshop Chaos Black spray followed by a coat of Kantor Blue. Shading is Drakenof Nightshade followed by a drybrush of Kantor Blue. These seats are not finished yet... there is something to be done to the headrests, Heather will know!
As to the base colour - the photographs in the GNR CK restoration web pages, referenced earlier in this topic, show the seats in different lights and the seat colouring changes appearance. I have gone with a bright blue that looks like being in the range of colours to be seen in the restoration photos... after all, the restored seats might not be accurate in regard to LNER upholstery of the 1945 period.
Base coat of Games Workshop Chaos Black spray followed by a coat of Kantor Blue. Shading is Drakenof Nightshade followed by a drybrush of Kantor Blue. These seats are not finished yet... there is something to be done to the headrests, Heather will know!
As to the base colour - the photographs in the GNR CK restoration web pages, referenced earlier in this topic, show the seats in different lights and the seat colouring changes appearance. I have gone with a bright blue that looks like being in the range of colours to be seen in the restoration photos... after all, the restored seats might not be accurate in regard to LNER upholstery of the 1945 period.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
(Lack of ) progress report. A visit to the local Games Workshop store for advice on how to overcome the sheen of the shading wash produced a product called "Lahmian Medium" - intended primarily as a thinner for the GW range of base paints (solid colours) and for creating new "shades/ washes" from base / layer colours, the product write-up on the GW web-site states that the medium provides a matt finish. Um, not quite... definitely matt compared to the shine of the shade washes and too shiny to represent cloth.
@Buckjumper had recommended W&N Galleria Matte Varnish and there is none of that in the Good Lady's art stash so I have tried the Matte Medium from the same range. A definite improvement in that the shade wash is now close to a matt finish and might pass muster in an open space... for seats in a carriage with lighting the seats will shine like a beacon. The W&N Matte Varnish is going to have to wait until I can get to a stockist (in one the many business parks on the outskirts of Basingsoke).
The GW matt medium is a product to keep in the (acrylic) paint locker for being a colourless solution the stuff does do well as a thinner of GW acrylic base paints.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
An interesting question... along with "What was the style of 'LNER' embroidered on the material in the post war period?"
Yet again, questions coming to the top of the pile which have no answers as yet. All feel free to contribute ideas.
BTW - the model antimacassars are going to be either Blue Rizla or some very fine linen lawn (from the Good Lady)... which is likely to depend upon how the material 'appears' when viewed through the carriage window.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello Graham,
looking at the first photo the window looks a bit on the small side so it could be a mock-up to show what it could look like? The date could also be a bit out as I always thought that Gresley coaches had a curve in the corners to the windows. (it could be the second link).
But all in all it looks like your going to have some fun in what ever you choose to do.
What about transfers for the seat covers, then?
Look at all of the chosese latter on!
ozzyO.
looking at the first photo the window looks a bit on the small side so it could be a mock-up to show what it could look like? The date could also be a bit out as I always thought that Gresley coaches had a curve in the corners to the windows. (it could be the second link).
But all in all it looks like your going to have some fun in what ever you choose to do.
What about transfers for the seat covers, then?
Look at all of the chosese latter on!
ozzyO.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Almost two weeks after Paul asked and an answer, of some sorts, has emerged. I posed a question on the LNER forum and was surprised by (a) how little response was made to the question and (b) the information which was provided was not necessarily accurate. A repeat visit to all of our LNER carriage tomes and another trawl of the LNER-CA gallery confirmed my suspicions as to how little had been recorded about this subject. Finally, I dropped a line to @Mike Trice to see what light could be shed by him - eureka, well at least a quite shout of bingo. Mike offered some assistance based upon official photos from York and Doncaster which, because those photographs date from circa 1940, are still subject to copyright.
In coming to a conclusion as to what is most likely to be the case for our carriage with first class seating (LNER D175) there are four attributes to be considered:-
1/ the shape and size of the antimacassar;
2/ the colour of the antimacassar;
3/ what border, if any, was included on the item;
4/ what lettering, if any, was included on the item.
These attributes are mine... and have no basis in official documentation.
Shape and size
Generally rectangular and fitted in landscape style.
Generally to fit between the garniture rail (wood strip above seat back) and the lower edge of the head rest.
No clear picture of how fitted to / retained on seat.
For those seats which were movable / self-standing the shape of the antimacassar generally followed the shape of the top of the seat... some seats had a curved top or a "triangular" shape to the top of the seat and the antimacassar was styled to follow the shape of the seat.
Colour
If the material was cotton then one might expect (bright) white... whilst if the material was linen then probably an off-white / pale cream colour. Unfortunately Mike is not aware of a genuine item and so an answer to this question is not easy. From what photographic evidence that is in the public domain the colour is not as bright or as white as current cotton knapkins... so I shall go with a pale, off-white, colour with a hint of linen.
Border
Rectangular antimacassars appear to have had a border in the style of lining to a tank / bunker side sheet of an engine. My best guess is that the border was about 1" - 1.5" from the edge and about 0.25" wide. As to colour, one might expect "house" colour and hence a blue (possibly similar to Garter Blue). However, the LNER was an exponent of using colour to distinguish / identify items and so green might be a candidate. If push comes to shove then I shall try to use a blue line on our (model) antimacassars... and omit the border if I cannot make a decent fist of the task.
Lettering
This aspect of the antimacassar research gave the most surprising result. What does not feature in the information to date is lettering in the house style... the majority of the lettering appears to be italic and possibly intertwined. At least one style of lettering looks like embroidery with a thread which is of the same colour as the material. After much thought - about five minutes - I have decided to omit this aspect of the modelling.
So now you know as much as I do... If any of you wish to suggest that my ideas are wide of the mark then please let me know... immediately after offering evidence of an alternative.