G3 3 plank dropside wagon

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Herewith a few snaps of plastic masters for resin moulding.

The M&SWJR owned a few 3 plank dropside/ ballast wagons that appeared to be pretty much identical to MR D305, so with available photos plus some superb MR drawings kindly sourced by AndyB it has been possible to arrive at something close to prototype.
Both the M&SWJR and MR wagons showed a variety of door bumps and headstock ends; the basic moulding will be neutral but the different features can be added easily enough to a model, as required.

A planned ballast train ex Foss Cross will need half a dozen hence the thought to resin mould.

The idea is to mould a one piece main body as shown in the first photo (underframe/ floor/ curb rails/ ends)
IMG_0009.JPG
onto which two separate side door pieces can be attached.
IMG_0010.JPG
Rightly or wrongly, I felt that separate doors would help portray the original's character a little better than had the whole thing been moulded as a one piece, especially at the corners.

The body is almost finished now, needing just nut detail, for which I will try Giles Favell's excellent items as featured elsewhere on WT.

After that, it will go off to Mike Williams to see what he thinks.
It may be that the separate sides idea is too much of a faff for moulding, or is impractical, in which case I will need to make a second side and glue the whole thing together.

As it is, the sides are not designed to hinge (although it could be done), but a dropped side could be modelled as part of a feature or diorama.
IMG_0008.JPG
Assuming these masters produce decent mouldings, then Mike Williams Models running gear, buffers, drawgear, etc would all fit straight in, and so a rake should be a relatively painless project.
Rub down transfers commissioned from 4D models are standing by; a little premature, but there's nothing like a bit of positive planning. (Excellent service from 4D, by the way).

Ah, just noticed the capping strips still need to go on.
 

AndyB

Western Thunderer
Jamie,

Lovely work, as we now expect from you!

A couple of thoughts:
1) It may be too late now, but if the sides are to be cast separately, then why not the ends? This would dramatically reduce the size of the mould needed for the floor, and also avoid the chance of the ends distorting.
2) I have some etches for the hooks that latch the sides up. These will need to be separate items if the sides are not part of the main casting. I can include some more in the sheets that I'm doing for strapping, etc - so let me know if you'd like some.

Andy
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Thanks Andy,
I did think of a few alternatives but don't think it through properly to be honest. An underframe with integral floor/ headstocks/ solebars/ curb rails, and then separate end planks/ stanchions may well have made more sense. All drawgear forces etc would still have been taken by a one piece moulding, and the ends themselves would have been purely cosmetic adornments.
As things stand, I can see there is indeed a risk the moulded ends will sag inward; and that would look pretty awful actually. I'll finish and send it to Mike for his opinion.
If necessary, I can finish this one as a stand alone wagon, and build another set of masters for casting. It would still be a lot less work than building six.

The idea is to have some hooks etched for the ends, held in place with a Scale Hardware cosmetic nut, so thank you very much. Yes, please.

Just had another thought. I modelled rather anaemic 'stud plates' on the inside corners (the ones that go through the sides to take pin on chains) on the assumption that would be required to extract mouldings, (but could be improved later if visible dependant on how the wagon was loaded); separate end panels would have rendered that compromise unnecessary.
Yours
Jamie
 
Last edited:

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
Excellent model, and excellent choice of prototype, Jamie. A 3 plank will add to the variety, and a Midland one means there's a reasonable MR goods train, with the Slaters vans. Is everything below the curb rail compatible with a 5-plank?
4D is my local model shop, the staff are very patient, explaining the basics to hapless students who haven't grown up with Blue Peter and cheap Airfix kits like we did.
 

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
I modelled rather anaemic 'stud plates' on the inside corners
If you mean you were nervous about stuff sticking out on the inside causing problems removing it from the mould, we may soon have an answer to that. I believe Mike has just received the Gloucester 5 plank opens from CMA, for which I made the patterns. They have inside diagonal strapping, with the nuts on the inside. I wasn't certain myself that they would be castable, but went ahead anyway. I'll post some photos when I get hold of a body.
It may be a few days off, as Mike's got his hands full at present.
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Geoff,
Thank you.
I think the underframe is indeed compatible with the 5 plank wagons. Mind you, a body with wrap around corner plates may be better off moulded one piece on its own underframe anyway.

There were a few Gloucester PO 5 plank wagons based on the M&SWJR so it's good to hear a kit will become available.
Looking forward to seeing photos of it, and how you got on with the internal detail. (Yes, that's what I was nervous about).
Fortunately for me the MR detail drawings show countersunk boltheads on the inside strapping for the dropside wagons- which makes life a lot easier!
 

unklian

Western Thunderer
I am very pleased to see your excellent pattern and that you intend getting the sides cast separately . I will have a few of these too. Another prototype that got all over the British Isles through smaller railways purchasing them second hand . And yes some ended up on the Isle of Wight too. Did I mention I like the Isle of Wight ...... ?
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Super Jamie. Look forward to seeing it and when its ready I'll pop over to collect. I don't see a problem with the ends and don't think they are much more likely to bow inwards than if they had been attached to sides at the corners. The Gloucester wagon Geoff spoke off has cast beautifully and I believe that if there is a lot of relief detail inside they use a multi-part centre section to the mould.

Geoff - Jamie is right that a one piece 5-plank may be better but I am wary of what Slaters may have in hand. Anyway, a dropside moulding could be used to make the 5-plank pattern - just cut off the ends and end stanchions IF the curb rail is the same width. On LNWR wagons they are not, but I know little about the Midland.

That means at least four entirely new Gauge 3 wagon kits this year so far, and its only July. Phew!

Mike
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
You've reminded me I must on Monday return a call from Mike concerning these wagons. Until then, I'm not sure how close Mike is to offering a kit based on the body (or alternatively, whether he's thought better of it!).
I did receive a resin moulding a while back, and am pleased with the way it turned out so I hope to purchase five more.IMG_0010.JPG .

IMG_0009.JPG
 

Spitfire2865

Western Thunderer
Looks very nice, would definitely want one when it comes around. Though hopefully not too soon, my wallet needs time to recover from what Im planning.
 

AndyB

Western Thunderer
Mike's bits are all done.
He is waiting on me to get the etches done for the drop side catches and the number plates. The catches will be a 'filler' on the sheet I'm doing at Jamie's request for fitted brake gear crossbars etc.
Real life just keeps restricting the time I have to do them!
Andy
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Jamie
Is this a single or multi brake wagon? If multi, can it be easily converted to single? Is there a photo/drawing?
Excellent work as usual.

Jon
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Just to confirm that I have twenty bodies and sets of parts all boxed up ready to go. Just waiting for those etched parts from Andy and then I'll be in touch Richard.

I don't pretend to have your knowledge of the real thing Andy, but if this has become a millstone please do say and I will try to help.

Mike
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Jon,
Others will know far more about them, but it seems the original two lots of MR D305 wagons (500 built in 1877 and another 1000 in 1880) may have been originally fitted with wooden brake blocks. I don't know whether acting on one wheel or two.
Thereafter, cast iron blocks acting on both axles one side.
Some must have been upgraded further over time, with either side brakes of various kinds.

The bodywork appeared to change little over the years, save bump stops and spring controllers for the sides.

Jamie
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
As you were.
I've just rediscovered a drawing in Essery's MR wagons, Vol 1 which purports to show an even earlier wagon (1874). It shows a central Vee hanger with two large wooden brakeblocks.
The body differences seem to comprise different washer plates around the coupling hooks (presumably due to different drawgear?) and wider headstocks. The headstocks extend out more with ends angled to act as integral bump stops.
The model headstocks are shorter so would need extender pieces glued on and smoothed in, something I'll be doing on at least one of mine.
Apart from that, and a length defined as 15ft rather than 14ft 11in., it looks pretty well identical.

Jamie
 
Last edited:

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Jamie
Thank you for that. It seems strange that they went from two wooden brake blocks to one single iron shoe. I don't have a three plank wagon so, will be watching its progress closely.

Jon
 
Top