Gresley Carriages in Detail

Discussion in 'Coaching stock' started by Mike Trice, 21 July 2021.

  1. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    For many years I have accumulated information on Gresley GNR and LNER carriages. I have on occassion uploaded some of these to help modellers on both WT, LNER Encyclopedia and RMWeb.

    A recent attempt to help @Heather Kay highlighted the potential of me creating a single point of reference that I could use to upload drawings or photos as I deem appropriate for general reference. I have a few items almost ready to go but need to spend a lot more time on some of the other areas of interest. As people ask questions in other threads I will add to this reference collection when I can. The net result however is that entries are likely to be in a relatively random sequence but at least there will only be one topic to look through.

    There are time when I will refer to elements of coaches by there common LNER name so to avoid confusion these are the terms I will try and keep to:
    GresleyTerms.jpg


    To kick off, so to speak, I will start with some basic vertical dimensions. Every time I start a new 3D model or cad drawing I have to establish the vertical heights of all the beading, windows, cornice etc. Trying to read these from GAs can get very confusing and difficult to make out. Part of the confusion is that there are two types of "standard" carriage, those where the body rests on rubber pads between it and the underframe and those that don't and sit directly on the underframe:
    gresley heights.jpg

    Where a carriage is "padded" the lower edge of the body has a scalloped edge and you can see the gap between the solebars and body (and occassionally the pads): padded.jpg

    Whereas the unpadded version has a plane bottomside and no gap :
    unpadded.jpg

    Where India Rubber pads are used they look like this (apologies for poor quality):
    IMG_2674 - Adjusted.JPG

    Edit: Height diagram replaced to make it easier to read.
     
    Last edited: 1 August 2021 at 15:54
  2. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Western Thunderer

    As someone interested in LNER coaches and also a previous recipient of Mike's help on several occasions, I am very grateful to Mike for starting this topic.
     
  3. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    Thanks Rob.

    This post will (hopefully) give some details relating to the drawgear used on vestibule stock. Vestibule coaches feature both a buckeye coupling and a conventional hook and links. The buffers can be extended when coupled to locomotives/vehicles using the conventional hook, and are retracted when used with buckeyes.

    The following drawings are use with welded underframes but hte rivetted version is similar:
    LNER Drwg 14987N Buckeye Drawgear Welded 1 of 5.jpg LNER Drwg 14987N Buckeye Drawgear Welded 2 of 5.jpg LNER Drwg 14987N Buckeye Drawgear Welded 3 of 5.jpg LNER Drwg 14987N Buckeye Drawgear Welded 4 of 5.jpg LNER Drwg 14987N Buckeye Drawgear Welded 5 of 5.jpg Here is a photo of the drawgear with the buckeye in dropped position:
    IMG_5432.JPG

    The buffers have been pulled out and a detachable collar fitted to engage the springs:
    IMG_5627.JPG
    For when coupled to a non buckeye fitted locomotive:
    IMG_5731.JPG

    When used with buckeys the collar is removed and hung on the headstock:
    IMG_6078.JPG

    And the buffer retracted:
    IMG_6079.JPG
     
  4. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    Some more photos:

    The mount for the vacuum brake blanking plug:
    Image719.jpg

    The end of the vacuum hose that would normally attach to the blanking plate when not coupled to another vehicle:
    Image953.jpg

    Note for the later clipped buffers that the underside of the body is recessed to permit the buffer heads to retract: Image726.jpg

    Steam heat valve. To the right is a spare three link coupling:
    Image853.jpg

    Some views of the steam heat valve in this case without a hose:
    Image947.jpg

    Image948.jpg

    Image949.jpg
    The pin on the chain is used when the buckeye is in its engaged position to keep it horizontal:
    Image950.jpg

    And at rest.
    Image951.jpg
     
  5. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    I have received also much help from Mike in respect of coach details, particularly the underframe fittings of the D167 Buffet and the roof ventilators for the BTK and BCK kits from JLTRT.

    Thank you Mike (@Mike Trice) for doing for the Gresley coach what other WTers have done for the BR Mk.1.
     
  6. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    The specific request for information that started this thread: passenger communication gear.

    All items shown here apply primarity to vestibule stock. Non vestibuled stock used the same fittings but arranged slightly differently.

    First off the components:
    LNER Drwg 12325D Passenger Communication Gear 1 of 5.jpg LNER Drwg 12325D Passenger Communication Gear 2 of 5.jpg LNER Drwg 12325D Passenger Communication Gear 3 of 5.jpg LNER Drwg 12325D Passenger Communication Gear 4 of 5.jpg LNER Drwg 12325D Passenger Communication Gear 5 of 5.jpg
    And how they are arranged on a vestibuled coach:
    IMG_2871 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_2874 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_2875 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_2879 - Adjusted.JPG
    This photo show the main valve probably from a non-vestibule coach:
    IMG_1625.JPG
    Some additional photos. You will note that not all coaches follow the same positioning of the parts. For some reason the Open Thirds seem to be different, not sure why:
    IMG_5348.JPG IMG_5520.JPG IMG_5525.JPG IMG_5526.JPG IMG_6073.JPG
     
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  7. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    The GNR used the same components but the mounting posts were curved rather than square:
    IMG_6134.JPG
    IMG_6163.JPG
     
    Last edited: 21 July 2021
  8. richard carr

    richard carr Western Thunderer

    Mike

    This is just fantastic

    Thank You


    Richard
     
  9. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    The following drawings show (I think) the hand brake linkages for a full brake:
    IMG_7656 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_7657 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_7658 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_7659 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_7660 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_7661 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_8780 - Adjusted.JPG IMG_8781 - Adjusted.JPG

    Sorry for the poor quality in these photos taken at Colne Valley Railway many years ago:
    Image404.jpg

    Image406.jpg

    Image408.jpg

    Will add some more drawings later.
     
    Last edited: 22 July 2021
  10. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    In her post @Heather Kay asked about the positioning of the Vacuum Pipe in relation to the solebars and steps:
    LNER Drwg 12151D (1).JPG

    LNER Drwg 12151D (26).JPG

    The following image shows the location of the vac pipe and also includes the connection to the vac cylinders:
    Image885.jpg

    The white star on the solebar indicates the location of a cord which can be used to open the valve on the vac cylinder to manually release the vacuum if necessary:
    Image568.jpg
     
  11. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    More hand brake details in no particular order:
    LNER Drwg 15051D DETAILS OF BRAKE GEAR 60-0 UNDERFRAME 1 of 8.JPG
    LNER Drwg 15051D DETAILS OF BRAKE GEAR 60-0 UNDERFRAME 2 of 8.JPG
    LNER Drwg 15051D DETAILS OF BRAKE GEAR 60-0 UNDERFRAME 3 of 8.JPG
    LNER Drwg 15051D DETAILS OF BRAKE GEAR 60-0 UNDERFRAME 4 of 8.JPG LNER Drwg 15051D DETAILS OF BRAKE GEAR 60-0 UNDERFRAME 5 of 8.JPG LNER Drwg 15051D DETAILS OF BRAKE GEAR 60-0 UNDERFRAME 6 of 8.JPG LNER Drwg 15051D DETAILS OF BRAKE GEAR 60-0 UNDERFRAME 7 of 8.JPG LNER Drwg 15051D DETAILS OF BRAKE GEAR 60-0 UNDERFRAME 8 of 8.JPG
     
  12. John Duffy

    John Duffy Western Thunderer

    Very helpful. I was puzzling over the Hatton's vehicles where the communication gear seems excessively obvious. Your information has made that a lot clear to me. Much appreciated.

    John
     
  13. Susie

    Susie Western Thunderer

    Dear Mike,

    Thank you so very much for starting this thread, it is all really useful and interesting - well to me at any rate!

    S
     
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  14. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    Tonight's topic is roofs, e.g. those with domed ends.

    First some drawings for a 9'0" vehicle:
    IMG_3326.JPG
    IMG_1300 - Copy.JPG
    IMG_1300.JPG
    IMG_1313.JPG

    IMG_1314.JPG


    LNER Drwg 5701N STANDARD END FOR ELLIPTICAL ROOF 9-0 BODY 2 of 4.JPG

    LNER Drwg 5701N STANDARD END FOR ELLIPTICAL ROOF 9-0 BODY 3 of 4.JPG

    LNER roofs are a semi elliptical shape. The end specification states the various ellipse dimensions:
    LNER Drwg 5701N STANDARD END FOR ELLIPTICAL ROOF 9-0 BODY 4 of 4.JPG

    Before discussing what these dimensions represent a quick diversion.

    Here you can see a domed end minus its canvas covering. Note the position of the nails fixing the boards to the vehicle:
    Image839.jpg

    Basically there are a number of wooden hoopsticks (5) to which they are fixed. Inside the coach the area below the dome is boarded up thus:
    IMG_0970.JPG
    So what do the quoted dimensions represent? Well it has taken me a while to understand these and I admit only since this afternoon. So without further ado:
    ellipses.jpg
    Hope that makes sense.
     
    Last edited: 2 August 2021 at 10:16
  15. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    Managed to find some photos of the interior of the vestibule which explains why there is a boxed in section there - it hides the top spring for the vestibule connector:
    Image863.jpg

    Image858.jpg
     
  16. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Small wonder the LNER was always strapped for cash. :) Those wooden coaches were really labour intensive. Very interesting scale drawings though for all that.
     
  17. Arun Sharma

    Arun Sharma Member

    A seriously useful thread Mike.
    Many thanks
     
  18. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    While on the subject of roofs, first off the destination board brackets. Once again I apologise for the poor quality of some of the drawings:
    dest.jpg

    In the above note the cross section for the rain strip.

    IMG_2853.JPG

    IMG_2854.JPG

    IMG_2855.JPG

    Image27.jpg

    Image28.jpg

    NYMR NRM 2010 IMG_1253 MT.JPG

    NYMR NRM 2010 IMG_1255 MT.JPG
     
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  19. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    Cornice strips over the doors and safety handles for the water filler caps:
    IMG_2858.JPG

    IMG_2861.JPG

    IMG_2865.JPG

    100_3740.JPG

    Certainly in Thompson Coaches the roof handles were spaced 2' from the centre line of the coach (or it could be from the filler cap if offset from the centre):
    IMG_3131.JPG Other designs of grab handle are also suggested however I have little info on this.

    An LNER Torpedo vent:
    LNER Drwg 2431N 4 Inch Torpedo Vent.jpg

    Image42.jpg
     
    Last edited: 24 July 2021
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  20. Mike Trice

    Mike Trice Western Thunderer

    One type of filler cap:
    LNER Drwg 13068D Filling Cap 1 of 3.jpg
    LNER Drwg 13068D Filling Cap 2 of 3.jpg
    LNER Drwg 13068D Filling Cap 3 of 3.jpg

    In this photo the removable top is missing and the cap appears to be blanked off:
    100_2106.JPG
    The Sleeping Car section in the National Collection has the correct arrangement which can just be seen in this side view:
    Image636.jpg

    In later years a different design was used that fed the water from track level:
    IMG_3162 - Adjusted.JPG
    Restaurant and Buffet Cars originally featured a distinctive roof cowl which is really not obvious when looking a GA's of the coaches side elevations:
    LNER Drwg 4396N Zinc Cowl 1 of 2.jpg
    LNER Drwg 4396N Zinc Cowl 2 of 2.jpg
     
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