Gwr 4400 Bunkers

[Simon Dunkley]

I am aware that as built, 115 (and presumably 3101-3110) had a small bunker, which was soon extended rearwards and had the typical GWR "lipped" coal bunker added, but does anyone know when - and were both of these changes done at the same time? I don't have the RCTS volumes, but have exhausted most other resources.

TIA.

Simon

 

[28ten]

Was there something in a Great Western railway Journal? I have seen it somewhere

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Thanks for the pointer, Guv.
I have a somewhat erratic collection of GWRJs, which are currently 140 miles away on long-term loan to a friend, who is currently hit with the nasty cold bug doing the rounds. I remember a feature on 4507, the last Wolverhampton loco in service (issue 2?) and sometime later, there was stuff on the early 4500s, somewhere in the "teens" of issue numbers. Not sure if that had the info in, though.

 

[28ten]

I checked this evening and I cant see anything but I have read something, somewhere.
I looked at Russell vol2 P137 and he isnt much help just noting that longer smokeboxes and extended bunkers were fitter gradually.....

there are a couple of as built shots in Edwardian Enterprise P109

 

[daifly]

The RCTS vol 9 says that: 'from about 1912 the bunker tops were extended' This was shown on Diagram O, and 'From 1924 the back ends were lengthened by about 9in. to accommodate larger bunkers.' 'Distance pieces were fitted between the old buffer beam and a new one.' This was shown on Diagram A4. 'A final modification to the bunkers was the fitting of recessed fenders to protect the upper lamp position.' No 4400 may never have received this last mod.
So in answer to your original question, the RCTS does not record exactly when the changes were made but they do appear to have been made in two phases.
HTH

Dave

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Thanks, Dave.
Although the information is not perfect - actual dates would be the ideal answer - it takes me part way to what I wanted to know! I dislike the original bunkers, preferring the "extended top", the extra length is not so important to me (oo-er missus!)
But it gives me things to ponder...

Thanks,

 

[daifly]

I've just had a look at my GWJ collection to find that there's an 11-page article on 44xxs in the Autumn 2011 edition (no.80). It's by John Copsey so there's lots of timetable and allocation info but the narrative is a bit light on technical development. There are some useful photos which show just how careful you'll need to be if trying to pin a single loco to a date in time. I'd forgotten about the rebuilding to the curved front footplate plus the myriad other changes - copper-capped chimneys, cab shutters, outside steampipes and smokebox stays.

 

[Wagonman]

Simon, it seems these engines received so many alterations during their lives it's hard to know where to start. The bunkers were extended upwards at about the same time the numbers were changed, maybe 10 years or so before they were extended backwards. In that period most would also have received extended smokeboxes (superheating) and front struts. Only about half of them ever received outside steam pipes and of those only three got the curved platform drop ends. Then there was top feed, different chimneys.... Presumably these changes occurred during a Heavy General.

What loco/period are you interested in?

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Thanks for the info so far, guys!

Specific loco is not so much an issue as it being a Newton allocated loco, and the period is 1912-1914. Upwards and extended top is a must, other features would be appropriate to the time.

Simon

 

[Wagonman]

Thanks for the info so far, guys!

Specific loco is not so much an issue as it being a Newton allocated loco, and the period is 1912-1914. Upwards and extended top is a must, other features would be appropriate to the time.

Simon

I don't have allocations (and can't lay my hands on the relevant GWRJ) but would suggest (using RCTS) that your loco would likely have upwards extended bunker, short smokebox (ie not superheated yet), possibly with stays and a copper capped chimney. Nice!

Richard

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Thanks Richard: just the combination I was looking for!
All I need to do now is track down a dated photo of a suitably shedded loco!

 

[Wagonman]

Thanks Richard: just the combination I was looking for!
All I need to do now is track down a dated photo of a suitably shedded loco!

That's the tricky bit...

 

[Wagonman]

Avoid 4400 and 4406 as they went straight to Wales.