Hull & Barnsley Modelling

Stirling O

Active Member
I've been an admirer and a member of this site for sometime without ever contributing anything, apart from a few comments on items which have been of particular interest to me, so I thought it was about time I started a thread about my particular interest, which is the Hull & Barnsley Railway.

Before, I reveal what I'm currently working on, I'll set the scene by giving a few details about a layout I'm in the process of building, which is a Scale7 Hull and Barnsley themed layout rejoicing in the name of "Staircliffe Exchange Sidings". It's a purely fictitious location somewhere in the Barnsley area , circa 1908 and represents some exchange sidings for the interchange of traffic between the Hull & Barnsley and other local railways. In the scheme of things there are larger 'off layout' sidings with a direct connection into the Great Central's 'Woodhead' route. As work progresses more will be revealed!

At the Telford GOG gathering last September on the Trustees an Executors stand I purchased a scratch built FS model of a H&BR Stirling F2 0-6-2T locomotive with the intention of converting it to run on Scale7 track. Comparison with drawings and known dimensions revealed it to be an accurate model of the real thing. At this point I decided that rather than convert the existing wheeled frames I would build new ones.

Working with what information I had and a number of good photographs, I drew up on my CAD system a new set of frames, which more closely followed those of the original design and profile, including joggled rear frames to incorporate a radial axle for the rear pony truck. Happy that the frames were as close a representation of the original that I could achieve, I transferred the dimensions to 0.028" nickel silver sheet and then used various radius gauges to replicate what the drawing required. Satisfied with things so far, I sweated a nickel silver blank to the one I had marked out. The two blanks were then attached to the wooden platen on my milling machine and as far as was possible were milled to the correct profile. A fair amount of work with needle files gave me a pair of frames I was happy with.

Spacers, designed on the CAD system were produced using the same methods employed in making the frames.

The joggle at the rear of the frames was achieved simultaneously in both frames by placing them mirror fashion in my 'Hold & Fold', ensuring that that they were both square to the bending edge, taking a deep breath, and bending them to the required angles.

The accompanying pictures show the frames in their present state fully assembled. As work progresses I'll post more pictures.IMG_4400.JPGIMG_4401.JPGIMG_4400.JPGIMG_4401.JPG

Dave
 

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Dog Star

Western Thunderer
"Like" seems rather poor returns for bravely going where so few have gone before. I shall admit to a liking of the H&B, a great pity that so little of the lines and stock remains.

Whose wheels?

regards, Graham
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
I don't know much about the H&B as a whole, but I'm a big fan of their engines...

Neat work on the radial trucks.. I have built a few recently, and I'm currently on mk2 of my approach to building them.. If you need any tips, I might possibly be able to help..

JB.
 

Stirling O

Active Member
Hi Graham,

I couldn't agree more with your sentiments about the near obliteration of anything H&B, and such a pity that such an individual railway doesn't get more recognition.

The wheels were sourced from JPL Models and machined to Scale7 standards by them. Whilst not Alan Harris quality, and certainly not Alan Harris price, they are nonetheless a better alternative to Slater's wheels I think.

Regards,

Dave
 

Stirling O

Active Member
Firstly, many thanks for you comments on the radial truck. and your offer of advice on building radial trucks. In fact it was an old MRJ article by Laurie Griffin and I think one of your earlier posts that influenced my decision to include a radial truck in my build.

When finished the radial axle will have side control incorporated. I really wanted to have a sprung axle boxes but limitations on space available, precluded me from doing that. If I'm correct your radial axle incorporated vertical springing applied to the inner slide, whereas if I'm correct in my understanding of how the real thing worked it is the axle-boxes which should be individually sprung.

I look forward to seeing your Mk2 version.

Regards,

Dave
 

Tony West

Western Thunderer
Dave, I'm really looking forward to future postings on this .
The loco that you bought...it was built by Phil Hinchliffe who had a layout based upon a fictitious GC and H&B joint line. If you look on the GOG website in the gazette archive section there is an article written by him in the Feb 1966 edition. I was fortunate to get some of his GC locos.
Cheers Tony.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Dave,
I, too, will be following your postings with great interest. It's the Kirtley connection for me. I've got most of the parts now to start building a pair of LCDR Kirtley 'T' Class tanks - H&B Class 'G1', I think?
Lovely build on that set of frames too.
Steph
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Hi Dave,

Well after much testing with the F5 I finally got it to run, but I needed a lot of weight, and I also needed to take the side springing out. The springs I used were too heavy, and after testing the side control on a plate of glass, I cam e to the conclusion that lighter springs wouldn't have done anything anyway... The F5 in particular just doesn't seem to want any side control, (but then I did build the frames a little too wide really...).

Mk2 is just a simplified version of Mk1... no side springing, about .75mm upward movement (which the F5 didn't have), and rather than using a completely enclosed radial truck, the rear surface is curved brass, and the front bearing surfaces are 3.5mm long lengths of 2mm brass angle just to keep the truck in the right place, much less resistance.

I probably could have made the earlier version work better if I'd had a set of rollers to get the radii on the bearing surfaces much more accurate, but unfortunately, I had to bend the lengths of brass around a tin of Halfrauds paint thinners...

Bottom line is, upward and downward springing, a reasonable weight of spring, and don't make the fit between the truck and the frames too good... As much as it pains me to say it, a measured amount of 'slop' seems to be order of the day...

JB.
 

Stirling O

Active Member
Thanks Tony,

I've often wondered who built the model I bought and what it's history was. It really is a beautiful piece of work and faithfully captures original and I consider myself extremely lucky to be its new owner. I hope the work I do on the chassis would have been appreciated by Phil.

I'll certainly be delving into the GOG Gazette archives to try and locate the article you mention.

Regards,

Dave
 

Stirling O

Active Member
Hi JB,

Thanks for details of your radial truck designs and your experience in developing and improving the original concept. Your picture highlights what I said earlier about lack of space in building a workable model. I hope mine works as well as yours.

Regards,

Dave
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Hi Dave, I tried it last night on Crosscombe magna with some pretty ferocious pushing through complicated point sections, and it ran very well indeed, so i'm happy with how these radial trucks have come out... I just need to rebuild the F5's now...

P.s, when I mentioned a bit of measured 'slop', having just looked at the calipers, it measured around 5 thou haha...

JB.
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Dave

Some nice work there, as someone who comes from near Hull the H&B has always been of interest even if nothing of it really remains anymore.

I see you drew the frames in CAD, did you think about getting them etched ? Its relatively cheap those frames plus stretchers and a good few other bits if you wanted would have been about £50 at PPD.

Richard
 

Stirling O

Active Member
Hi Richard,

Many thanks for your appreciation of my work.

Getting the frames etched was a consideration, but scratch building the frames and spacers and other associated bits was a challenge I wanted to undertake to prove to myself that I could do it. Sometime in the future I'm going to need at least one more F2, at which point I'll explore the possibility of getting some frames etched.

Amongst my other projects I'm currently working on some CAD drawings to get a H&BR 'C' class (small boilered 'B' class) produced as a set of etches. That's the beauty of modelling the H &BR, there's very little available in kit form, so you have to do it yourself or get friends with similar interests to help you. Through my research into the H&BR I've made some good friends who have been generous with providing information and support and offers of help. That's the beauty of this wonderful hobby of ours you make some great friends who will help if they can.

Dave
 

micknich2003

Western Thunderer
Here is an F2, builders photo. The H&BRly is also "My Thing", and I have, thanks to Dave, inerited the original set of frames he mentions. Sooner or later, I hope to build a new "Body". Anyone interested, I have numerious scans of H&B engines. Mick.F2 103.jpg
 

Stirling O

Active Member
In an earlier post on this thread I alluded to friends I've made in my H&BR researches. Mick Nicholson, the poster of the works photograph in the previous post, is such a person. He's a mine of information on H&B matters, and if he doesn't know, he probably knows someone who might know the answer.

The works photograph of the F2 he posted was one of my main sources of reference when drawing up the frames. Cheers Mick.

Dave
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Hi Dave,

Sorry for taking so long to post here but I've been really busy recently. Great to see you posting here and the frames you've made up look spot on. I will be really interested to see how you get on here as at some point a H&B F3 is on the cards for me, being the only H&B class to survive into nationalisation. Will you be bringing the loco along to Brightwell ? I would love to see it I the flesh please,

ATB Mick
 

Stirling O

Active Member
Hi Mick,

No need to apologise, I fully understand how busy you've been.

I do intend to bring it to Brightwell and hopefully in an even more advanced state. I took it over my mates last week and ran it on his test rig and I'm pleased to say it ran superbly. The main thing left to do now apart from one or two minor cosmetic additions is to arrange how to collect the current from the wheels. At the moment I'm thinking of fitting plunger pick-ups as supplied by Gladiator, but that may have changed by the time you see it!

Hope the exams went well.

Best wishes,

Dave
 

D G Williams

Active Member
Just caught up with this thread. My interest in the HBR comes from the LCDR connection - Wiliam Kirtley and J S Forbes. The F2 looks like a very attractive loco!
The information about radial trucks is also very interesting ...
Looking forward to seeing more here!
 
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