Liver & Fry's workbench

[Liver & Fry]

First post of 2025!

Upon completing the GE opens, I had some spare builders and tonnage plates on the etches, so I figured why not add some details to my previous GE projects? There aren't enough spares for all my vans, but I figured it would elevate a couple of them.

My vans of choice were Dia.15 No.20156 and Dia.47 No.31050.



No.20156 was chosen as a pre-1902 example, which looked somewhat naked without any detailing below the lettering on the upper planks.



No.31050 has that very clear portrait in Tatlow and the van has always been one of my favourites of the Oxford reworks, so I figured it made sense to "complete" it as per the photo.



It's a gentle start to this year's modelling efforts, but I've got a few plans in the works... Watch this space!

 

[Richard Gawler]

Please James, what paint do you use for French Grey? I have some Vallejo 70.987 Medium Grey. This is in the same family as the colour on your van but I suspect this is a factory finish.

 

[Liver & Fry]

Please James, what paint do you use for French Grey? I have some Vallejo 70.987 Medium Grey. This is in the same family as the colour on your van but I suspect this is a factory finish.

The grey on the Oxford Rail van is, as you say, the original factory finish. However, for other stock I've painted, I use the phoenix shade (P506 'G.E.R. Light Freight Grey') which, aside from being matt, is a close match to what Oxford went for.

- James

 

[Richard Gawler]

Many thanks James. I was about to ask the question some months ago, but your workbench moved on. Your output seems to be far more prolific than mine!

 

[Liver & Fry]

Your output seems to be far more prolific than mine!

I surprised myself in 2024! I'm easing into 2025 a bit more gently, but I've got a few projects on the "to do" list already.

 

[Liver & Fry]

Whilst on the topic of vans, I've had a bit of a head scratcher this last week.

Someone shared with me a Ken Werrett drawing of a ventilated GE dia.15 that was also fitted with vac brakes, and was drawn in the post-1912 livery with large V markings at each end (which fits, as the measurements were taken in 1917). An interesting prototype, by all accounts, except the running number was GE 20732 - The very same number I'd used on my ventilated Dia.15, albeit, my van was not fitted. I'd used that number as it is the one provided on the powsides transfer sheet, which, it seems, take influence from the Ken Werrett drawing, as the style of the V (split into two lines at the bottom) is identical to that as drawn.

My concern, however, was that whilst I could update my model to feature vac brakes, previous discussions here and elsewhere have made me skeptical as to the accuracy of his drawings. Indeed, the livery for GE 20732 is given as cream sides and black ends... Close if you squint, but not correct.

So I went down a rabbit hole of trying to find photos of ventilated Dia.15 vans (as @Herb Garden will verify through gritted teeth, I'm sure!). This led me to a photo found on Facebook, which is not credited, nor has any information to supplement it regarding location, date etc.



It shows, what I make out to be GE 20791, interestingly with a dark solebar, instead of the usual French Grey. The problem with this? My unventilated Dia.15 had been numbered 20791 after I lifted that number from the Railway Heritage Register (allegedly that of an unventilated example to be found at the Mid Suffolk?).

Long story short? I've renumbered both!



GE 20960 is based on a survivor currently at Mangapps and GE 20393 is, I confess, me committing the cardinal sin of modelling a model, for that number is one of the ones used on a van in the model collection at the NRM!



They're now going away before I find out anything else unexpected!

- James

 

[Overseer]

A couple of comments if I may. Don’t ever rely on any Ken Werrett drawing as they are largely works of fiction. He had some real GA drawings and used them as inspiration for his own GA style drawings of wagons he had seen in his youth, or had photographs of, with varying degrees of connection to reality. He certainly did not carry out detailed measurements as he later claimed.

The other is the number on the van in the Facebook photo - it looks to me as if the assumed final 1 digit is actually a shadow line from the cast plate adjacent to the number, so the number ends in 079.

Just wondering if the GER painted steel solebars black and wooden ones the same colour as the wooden body. There is some logic to this but lots of railways didn’t follow it.

 

[Liver & Fry]

A couple of comments if I may. Don’t ever rely on any Ken Werrett drawing as they are largely works of fiction. He had some real GA drawings and used them as inspiration for his own GA style drawings of wagons he had seen in his youth, or had photographs of, with varying degrees of connection to reality. He certainly did not carry out detailed measurements as he later claimed.

The other is the number on the van in the Facebook photo - it looks to me as if the assumed final 1 digit is actually a shadow line from the cast plate adjacent to the number, so the number ends in 079.

Just wondering if the GER painted steel solebars black and wooden ones the same colour as the wooden body. There is some logic to this but lots of railways didn’t follow it.

Precisely that! As I say, his description of the GE livery was enough to ring alarm bells but I figured it safer to avoid any doubt by chosing a different number.

I certainly agree insofar as the 1 doesn't look like it ought to. However, the vans sat in a number series of 20100-21000, meaning it has to be 2079X and the appearance of a straight line/potential 1 was enough to spook me into changing that number too, again to avoid any ambiguity in my own mind.

There's evidence on later steel framed vans for the solebar to be French Grey. Photos of 31050 and 37379 certainly show this, although the latter is almost certainly an official photo. Interestingly I questioned Oxford Rail when they revealed their models to have black solebars and they claimed it was based on a livery specification from 1920, so maybe the Dia.15 in the photo is seen in the late GER period?

- James

 

[Liver & Fry]

Bet you didn't expect me to add to this threadmark, did you? Neither did I! Well, not entirely. With my GER focus of late, I nearly started 2025 by building a pair of GE brake vans. I've also got plans for some more L&Y wagons. However, my post-grad is due to restart soon and so I didn't want to start a project I'd have to put on pause, but I still have a few days to fill, so I went with something I know I can get done quickly.

Enter another GNR Dia.1 4 plank, by Mousa Models:



This one differs from the last in that it represents an earlier wagon by having both brake levers at one end. Something for variety, I figured. It's mostly because I wanted one with the earlier style of lettering.

Anyway, the print was very neat from the outset and required very little clean up. I've then painted the body and underframe in their respective colours, as well as the base coat on the underside of the floor. This will get fitted when dry and then the inside of the wagon can be painted as one part.



- James

 

[Dave Sutton]

IIRC if it's the wooden solebar it would be the same colour as the body, only the metalwork below would be black (It's a while since I painted some and can't find my notes)

 

[Liver & Fry]

IIRC if it's the wooden solebar it would be the same colour as the body, only the metalwork below would be black (It's a while since I painted some and can't find my notes)

Sorry, was this in relation to the GE discussion, or the GN open?

 

[Dave Sutton]

Sorry, was this in relation to the GE discussion, or the GN open?

Aaah yes, the GN open.

 

[Liver & Fry]

Aaah yes, the GN open.

Rest assured, the solebar is brown - It's just the angle of the photo!

 

[Liver & Fry]

Floor fitted and undercoat applied:



Not an exciting update, but a step forward!

- James

 

[Liver & Fry]

Made good progress tonight with the GN open; the inside has been painted, buffers and drawhooks have been fitted and painted and weight has been added underneath:



Think it's fair to suggest this one will be done by the end of the weekend!

- James

 

[simond]

James,

is that lead shot, and if so, what glue did you use? I ask because if it’s PVA it will slowly react with the lead and will “grow”. It’ll probably not be an issue in your wagon, as it has somewhere to move to, but in enclosed spaces, boilers, tank wagons, etc, it will damage the model over time.

sorry if granny & eggs, etc, but some folk may not be aware of this, and I came across an example last week.

atb
Simon

 

[Liver & Fry]

James,

is that lead shot, and if so, what glue did you use? I ask because if it’s PVA it will slowly react with the lead and will “grow”. It’ll probably not be an issue in your wagon, as it has somewhere to move to, but in enclosed spaces, boilers, tank wagons, etc, it will damage the model over time.

sorry if granny & eggs, etc, but some folk may not be aware of this, and I came across an example last week.

atb
Simon

No worries, it's a good point to raise!

I use Liquid Gravity and Rocket superglue. It was discussed on this thread back in late 2023 (Page 3, Post #42) and I believe the conclusion was that it was made of tungsten, although I don't recall if you ever received the requested MSDS?

- James

 

[simond]

James,

that was a while back, thanks for the reminder, no, they ignored me.

Maybe I’ll order some from work, and then “require” an MSDS

I’ve still got enough lead shot to see me out!

atb
Simon

 

[Liver & Fry]

And there we are! The first wagon of 2025 is complete!



When I built the previous GN opens, I was quite taken by the earlier style of lettering, once I'd learnt it existed. However, because I'd mentally committed to having that Dia.1 with the more recognisable post-1898 G N lettering, I put that thought on the backburner. Thankfully the transfer sheet provided by @Overseer allowed me to do it this time around (and the fact they were on there is pretty much the sole reason I decided to build another one).

- James

 

[Overseer]

And there we are! The first wagon of 2025 is complete!

View attachment 231258

When I built the previous GN opens, I was quite taken by the earlier style of lettering, once I'd learnt it existed. However, because I'd mentally committed to having that Dia.1 with the more recognisable post-1898 G N lettering, I put that thought on the backburner. Thankfully the transfer sheet provided by @Overseer allowed me to do it this time around (and the fact they were on there is pretty much the sole reason I decided to build another one).

- James

That looks very good. We should thank @Mike W for the artwork for the early GNR lettering, all I did was resize it from G3 to 4mm scale, and press the print button.