4mm Llanfair Rd

Discussion in 'WR Action' started by LarryG, 4 April 2021.

  1. Dave Holt

    Dave Holt Western Thunderer

    That's not a sun tan, Larry, it's rust! (Same applies in Oldham.)
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  2. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I had finished wiring the layout when an Electrofrog point failed. It was replaced with a large radius flat-bottom point along and a short stretch of siding with re-spaced sleepers to match Peco bullhead. Fingers crossed everything works in the morning and the replacement track can be weathered...

    WEB Tracklay 18.jpg
  3. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Laying an operating rod to the new point meant melting the rod through the plastic webbing on the point in front. The point it replaced wads a medium radius which was shorter and would have meant burrowing under the adjacent points frog.... a no-no...

    WEB Tracklay 18B.jpg

    Through and easier than expected...
    WEB Tracklay 18C.jpg

    New point fully operational ~ and weathered....
    WEB Tracklay 18D.jpg

    Clow up of the operating lever with a frog polarity changeover switch to the Electrofrog point...
    WEB Tracklay 18G.jpg
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  4. Pencarrow

    Pencarrow Western Thunderer

    Hi Larry, grandmother and eggs and all that but... I assume you've checked the brass rod under the rails doesn't short the track?
  5. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Yup. :cool:

    EDITTED 13th (!) October. I had a short this morning and it took ages to find the culprit. Yes, it was one of the square brass rods that had scrapped its way upwards until it finally touched the underside of a rail.
    Last edited: 13 October 2021
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  6. Pencarrow

    Pencarrow Western Thunderer

    Just checking like...:thumbs:
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  7. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    A view along the track to check 'flow' of rails. Going diagonally across the distant curve with be a stone overbridge and road on embankment to act as a scenic break between the scenic part and the fiddle yard....

    WEB Tracklay 18E.jpg

    The short section of Peco Code 75 flat-bottom track with re-spaced sleepers connecting the point to the siding...
    WEB Tracklay 18F.jpg

    All the alterations made over the past few months have finally bore fruit. It's all working and I have achieved my goal of completing the track and wiring before the end of October. Buildings and scenery can be added from now on...
    WEB Tracklay 18H.jpg

    The glue, lay & ballast in one go technique takes planning and speed, but it eliminates that "Jeepers, I've got the ballasting to do one day" nightmare. The more robust the track the easier it, but I feel bullhead is worth the effort because it looks realistic especially in the eye of the camera. Same with large radius turnouts that fit in neatly with the foreshortening of everything else.
  8. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I was too occupied to open todays parcels, however, I've since dunnit and found buffer stops from Peco (left) as well as Lanarkshire models. The latter are very tidy and easy to solder together using low-melt designed for whitemetal. It's many years since I used low-melt let alone open the little drawer. Counting 10 sleepers back from the end of the siding, I am going to remove the rails and then alter the chairs to suit Lanarkshire's buffer stop. They're not insulated so they will go on the carriage siding the end of which loco will never tread! . The yard headshunt, on the otherhand, will will have a Peco buffer stop or a sleeper-built stop, then it won't matter if I miss-judge momentum...

    WEB Bufferstops 1.jpg
  9. Pencarrow

    Pencarrow Western Thunderer

    Hi Larry, with the Lanarkshire buffer stops I superglued some squares of tissue paper to the rear of the buffer beam and, when set, superglued that to the rail uprights. Worked well, firm fix and electrically insulated.
  10. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Lanarkshire buffer stops fixed in situ at the end of the storage siding...

    WEB Tracklay 19A.jpg
    Last edited: 10 October 2021
  11. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Track-testing was courtesy of a Dapol DCC FITTED GWR 53xx, seen taking water. The Peco buffer stops have had a rod connecting both sides fitted behind the beam and a spare Lanarkshire beam. I've been learning DCC all over again, although there's not a lot to alter on non-sound decoders. Must admit I am missing 'sound' and so I will be thinning out the loco collection. This 2-6-0 will be the mainstay on Llanfair D.
    WEB GWR 63XX 1.jpg
    Last edited: 10 October 2021
  12. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    LLANFAIR ROAD was always meant to be a working title.

    Although I have lived in Wales for the bigger part of my life, I retain a broad Cottonopolis accent and I generally pronounce names/words as I see them (as we do). If I pronounce Penelope the same as envelope and vase the same as phrase, I am hardly going to twist my tongue around the subtleties of the Welsh language. My layout is based on Llanfyllin, but it is not a copy and so I thought it best to chose another name. My trains still run to Oswestry and beyond.

    I could simply call it Llanvair to distinguish it from all the other Llanfairs. Llanvair Moor is also being considered. Isn't there a GWR loco named Llanvair Grange?
    Last edited: 11 October 2021
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  13. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Indeed, Larry. Here it is at Southall (well, Llanfair), next to a GWR 2-8-0.

    img809 TM Southall 1964 Note 81A stencil and 6877 Remask copyright Final.jpg

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  14. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    Why not anglicise?


    After all the Welsh changed Portmadoc! Their right, of course, though some of the rationale is a bit contorted.
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  15. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Not sure even 14th century clerks made that sort of mangling (and believe me, in the day job I have seen a few). Portmadoc/Porthmadog is one of those - madly ahistorical, but also atypical - aberrations. Denby and Tenby (which have the same Welsh root, Din-bach, the small fort, which would be pronounced rather differently) are more organic examples.

    Interestingly (if you're me), Llanfyllin is one of those places with remarkably narrow range of variations. Below is an example from the Melville-Richards place name database - Melville Richards Archive Place-Name Database - Agreement - which shows how little, over about eight centuries, the spelling has been changed - note that the larger variations are routinely by more distant authors.


    They'd be little point in picking an Angiclised, wholly alien, spelling in a Cymrophone area with an established written tradition - though the Post Office was prone to that as this resident of Tunbridge/Tonbridge can testify...

  16. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I want to avoid a mouthful. I know what you mean though. We northerners generally abbreviate names. I say 'Gele (not Abergele), or t'Junction (not Llandudno Junction), Blaenau (Not Ffestiniog) and Pen' (not Penmaenmawr).

    I want to run occasional excursions and so 'Llanfair Lake' sounds like the kind of place that just might attract walkers from around the place including nearby England. Llanfair Llyn would mean now't in England, the real lake being Vernwy of course, with a road link by whoever took over GWR bus services on Nationalisation.
    Last edited: 11 October 2021
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  17. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Hi Adam, interesting stuff and just thinking aloud - is it possible the Form used in the table is partially phonetic based on how the scribes heard them at the time of writing?
  18. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Oh, one of those deceptively simple questions.

    Yes, it is, though for a variety of reasons, it's less likely in the case of place names than personal names.

    Obviously all the sources we have are written and most of those will have originated locally, in the form of petitions or local administrators, secular or religious, many of whom would be Welsh speaking (to an extent, at least - it's usually fairly obvious when a clerk who'd ever heard the language turned up or was doing that, but that's bitter experience of handwriting wrangling medieval handwriting). In other words most of these spellings will have come from people who knew those places.

    One thing to note about that table is that we are also looking at transcription conventions which are derived from transcribing Latin. So many of those 'u's should be 'v's because in most medieval hands they look the same. So do 'n's. In Latin it doesn't much matter, in English it does as it does in Welsh. So William Camden (a Londoner) whose attempt is perhaps most off beam was probably looking at someone's handwriting with a bit of guesswork.

    Personal names are a bit different because it's much more likely the clerk will just write what he (as it usually was) hears. My favourite examples include four chaps called Llywelyn (other choices are available on that one even in modern orthography) where the poor clerk was simply guessing and went with Thlewelin/Luellin and others. Some of the French attempts at Welsh names from 15th century Normandy (lists of soldiers names from garrisons there formed a large part of a project I was involved in) are decidedly eccentric but again, the clerk could only write down what he heard.

    That's a long way of saying 'yes, but not especially', isn't it?

    Last edited: 12 October 2021
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  19. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Thanks @AJC . It's one of the areas which does interest me.
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  20. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    The history of place names interests me too but I would hate to get off topic on such a well managed thread. Suffice it to say that I have been guilty of recording what I heard said in one language, translated into another and then anglicized.

    The naming of layouts has always had a sub-theme of the absurd or ridiculous, particularly when, as in Larry’s case the layout is not strictly (100%) based on a real place.
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