LNER to BR crossover liveries

[Scale7JB]

Hi all..

I've nearly finished the second K2, a long half built shelf queen, but i've just a couple of things to do before I slap some paint on it..

Trouble is, it was in LNER days in lined green... I'm wondering what the livery might have been post BR, as after the L1, I'm slowly being weaned towards the dark side of early BR. I'm just wondering though if anyone knows what the livery might have been on K2 61734?

Would the green and the lining have remained, and an emblem and new number slapped on after '68?

Any help greatly appreciated as I'm hoping the primer might be on within a couple of weeks (if I can borrow someones spray booth... Richard )

JB.

 

[mickoo]

Post 68? surely you mean post 48?

At a rough guess most locos were painted in wartime black, even express locos and certainly a K2 would, whether they got around to painting them LNER green after the war is doubtful so would probably have been still black in which case post 48 it would go into BR mixed traffic lined black at some point.
Some classes started in BR lined black but then went to BR lined green later on, two that I know of are WR Hall class and ER V2 class, I think this was around 57-58, probably when they were power regraded.

Chances are if it carries a BR number it'll be in BR colours, Yeadons or RCTS will probably have the answer, neither of which I have for K2's, Peter might have one on his shelves somewhere, will check for you on Sunday

BTW, good man for considering moving to the BR era, you now it makes sense

A BR K2 would look grand next to my A1 and A4's

 

[Heather Kay]

Depending on how long it had been since the loco had been in the shops, the old company liveries were retained until the Powers That Be decided on the official liveries. Usually British Railways was painted on in place of the company name, sometimes the new number was painted on the cab or tank side, or the old number had a regional prefix (M for Midland Region, E for Eastern and so on).

In practice, this was up until about 1949 or so. One or two locos lingered with older liveries, but I would say most locos were repainted to the BR liveries by the early 1950s.

 

[Steph Dale]

Umm, 1948, surely....?

But, if the Southern was anything to go by then yes, you've got some options for bizarre hybrid liveries. The very early Nationalisation period tended to retain the Big Four livery with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' applied in the original owning company's font. In some photos you can see quite clearly where the letters taken for the 'SOUTHERN' transfer were interspersed with hand-painted letters for the other characters. This might have included use of a prefixed number

Next phase would have included renumbering; perhaps not including re-lettering of tenders again all in the company style.

Then lettering would have been swapped for Gill Sans, I guess probably less of an issue on the ER which had adopted it as a standard typeface.

And then into the early BR liveries with tender lettering, blank or totem. Lining tended to be pretty wayward until about 1950.

Steph

 

[Steph Dale]

Some classes started in BR lined black but then went to BR lined green later on, two that I know of are WR Hall class and ER V2 class, I think this was around 57-58, probably when they were power regraded.

The Schools went from lined black to lined green too, although not all were so treated. It roughly coincides with the change over of the totem with only one (or just possibly two) receiving green with an early totem.

BTW, weren't any BR black WR loco likely to have made it into (lined or unlined) green at some point? I mean even tank engines seemed to go from black into green one way or another, so in that regard the Halls weren't unique.

Steph

 

[Ian Rathbone]

According to the RTCS Green book 1734 was painted unlined black in June 1948 following an accident at Stratford. It would have become 61734 at that time with BR in full, on the tender. It would have received lined black at a later date, with the first BR emblem. You need to be careful with K2s as they tended to be painted at Cowlairs and so received Scottish Region markings.

Ian R

www.ianrathbonemodelpainting.co.uk

 

[Scale7JB]

Oh 'eck..!

Thanks for that Ian, why I didn't check the RCTS I don't know, as it was sitting about 5 feet from where they were when I posted..! And 1734 was possibly the most interesting of the southern engines too, so there was bound to be some info on it..

Thanks to everyone else to0, much appreciated feedback... Question is, what to do with the engine, kinda bored of black engines now, heaven knows I've got a few, and if I do the K2 in lined green, do I strip the L1 and repaint that in lined green?!

JB.

 

[Heather Kay]

Um, no. BR livery guidelines were quite plain.

Plain black for lowly goods and shunting engines.
Lined black for mixed traffic types.
Lined green for express passenger types.

There were exceptions, but they tended to be pet engines of local sheds, one-offs, and didn't really happen until late in the life of steam on British Railways.

 

[7mmMick]

Strip the L1 .

Having said that if you were after a green engine you could have got away with an early experimental green L1 with British Railways on the tank side, I have a cracking picture of 67719 ( early type with the curved front footplate like yours ) which arrived in Hull in 1948. It's finished in BR green, I don't know the name but it's the light green instead of the later brunswick variations and has the black and white lining, I bet Warren will know. I'm guessing it later moved down south and also of note it has those GER type name board brackets on the smoke box door?

Were any K2's treated to this early green livery?

Mick

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

JB,
Strip the L1 and paint it green.
The first 22 of the class were painted LNER lined green with various permutations of the number and lettering. I've seen a couple of colour photographs of them at Liverpool St. in that livery and reckon they look superb.
Tim

 

[Scale7JB]

Hi all, thanks for that... Either way, because of a few mods to the engine it needs to be 9000/67701, tank filler positions, rear bunker overhang and rear steps etc...

I'll pose the question with the crosscombe lot, though I think they like it in BR black..

One other thing that might decide it, I want to build the V2 with a double chimney, was that spec pre or post '48?

JB.

 

[mickoo]

V2 double chimneys are mid fifties I believe, let me get home and get my notes out as some (all?) of the double chimney ones (may?) have the revised cylinder and smoke box castings with outside steam pipes, but some single chimneys may also have this arrangement as well. The Irwell press book is pretty good for this sort of info...I hope LOL

I'll post up later which locos had what and when as I also wanted a double chimney version but with outside pipes, so it will be good to revist my notes and refresh myself. From dim memory there was only a handful fitted with double chimneys.

 

[richard carr]

This is from the LNER encyclopedia and I believe it to be correct

During the 1960s, there were a number of trials with Kylchap blastpipe/chimney arrangements. This actually started with trials on Nos. 60817 and 60963 running with an arrangement borrowed from the LMS Royal Scot Class, rather than theLNER Pacific double chimney Kylchap arrangement. This did not give a significant performance boost, and the Kylchap arrangement was tried instead. Nos. 60817 and 60881 were fitted with Kylchap cowls in January 1961. This resulted in performances comparable to a Pacific, and the recommendation was made to convert all V2s to use this arrangement. With the imminent replacement by diesels, only eight V2s were eventually converted to use the double chimney Kylchap arrangement.


So only 8 done and all in the 60s, but they would have been lined green !

Richard

 

[Ian Rathbone]

No L1 was painted in 'experimental green'. Only two ex LNER locos received it, both B17s. A total of 17 K2s were painted in LNER Green, all at Cowlairs, so they would all have the Cowlairs style lining. It's all in the RCTS green books.

Ian R

www.ianrathbonemodelpainting.co.uk

 

[Scale7JB]

Just for everyone's perusal, below is how the engine looked in '45 and I thought being Stratford it might have lasted a little longer...

JB.