Machining Wheel rims

[Marc Dobson]

As it looks like the types of the peg S7 wheels are not going to change in the near future I'm looking to make my own. So with this in mind I'm going to 3D print the centres and machine up the tyres. So my question is this what material would people suggest I use to make the tyres out of? BDMS is my first port of call but what do others think?

I have a lathe and the S7 HSS profile tool.

Marc

 

[JimG]

I use mild steel for tyres but of the free cutting variety - EN1A. It doesn't seem to rust - I have some drivers on an S scale loco made nearly forty years ago using EN1A for the tyres, stored in domestic conditions with no special precautions, and they have never rusted.

Jim.

 

[Crimson Rambler]

I agree with @JimG - free cutting mild steel.


Crimson Rambler

 

[richard carr]

I agree with Jim too.
It is worth looking for some suitably sized tube if you can, as there is an awful lot of waste cutting them from solid stock.

Richard

 

[JimG]

It is worth looking for some suitably sized tube if you can, as there is an awful lot of waste cutting them from solid stock.

I've seen suggestions to use hydraulic tube and there are quite a wide range of diameters and wall thicknesses available

Steel Tube

We supply seamless steel tube, manufactured to DIN 2391/C ST37.4, in metric sizes from 4mm to 42mm, for hydraulic applications. Order tubing online today.

www.pipestock.com

...but the main problem is having to purchase it in three or six metre lengths at considerable cost. It could be worth looking for a machine shop which works with hydraulic tube to negotiate acquiring some offcuts.

The last sortie I had to a machine works to get some steel rod offcut was very successful. I got about six inches of about 55mm free-cutting bar to make some drivers for 1:32 scale. I had taken some S scale drivers along to show what I was intending to use the steel for and one gentleman who operated a very large lathe offered to put a large drill through the bar to help out. I accepted in a flash. I think I could have sat my Cowells on the topslide of his lathe.

Jim.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

As Jim says EN1A, as for waste, if you use the right tooling you may be able to turn a tyre and leave the core, if that makes sense. I believe Paul Stokes ( S7 Stores) had some r.h. profile tools made which means you could turn the tyre profile, rear outwards from the chuck enabling you to turn the back out and part off the tyre . This would leave the remainder of the stock as a smaller dia. for smaller tyres or other projects.
Col.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I'm looking at wheels form 2'6 to 4' so machining from solid isn't that much of an issue. I will see if I can get my hands on some EN1A and have a crack.

Marc

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

I’ve turned a few tyres in my time, this is a set of 4 x 3’6” for a pug. After bringing the bar to outside tyre diameter I roughed each blank with the parting tool and profiled each with an S7 group profile tool. The bar was then drilled as big as I could and then bored out releasing individual tyres.

The steel is a bar end I picked up at a local scrappy and it wasn’t free cutting! However it cut OK with generous drips of Rocal cutting fluid. However I have used EN1A for other tyres, chalk and cheese!

Ian.

 

[simond]

Thank you Ian, that turned a light on…

 

[mike evans]

This is interesting as I am soon to start building a live steam 3/4” Shay and the wheels are fabricated and machined to profile afterwards. The outer part of the wheels calls for a stainless ‘collar’ 60mm o.d. X 41mm I.d. X 12mm thick.
Rather than bore out the centre and finish up with bucket loads of swarf I have experimented with cutting a groove into their end of the bar 12mm deep.
This is what I did. Ground 12mm sq.HSS tooling (with 5% cobalt) to 4mm wide and radiused on the outside so the tool does not snag on the machined groove. My lathe has a built in cooling systeso flooded the work, speed about 300 rpm and slow continuous cutting to the required depth them withdraw the tool immediately (not a good idea to let the tool rub). I then parted off and I have the collar.
The steel that I used was a piece of 60 o.d. EN 8 bar.
As Col says, I will have a stainless bar 40 dia. for other work.

Mike

 

[mike evans]

I'm looking at wheels form 2'6 to 4' so machining from solid isn't that much of an issue. I will see if I can get my hands on some EN1A and have a crack.

Marc

Marc
EN1A try Noggin end metals. I use them all the time. Large range of sizes in many different material.
Just a satisfied customer
Mike

 

[Tim Watson]

I’ve turned a few tyres in my time, this is a set of 4 x 3’6” for a pug. After bringing the bar to outside tyre diameter I roughed each blank with the parting tool and profiled each with an S7 group profile tool. The bar was then drilled as big as I could and then bored out releasing individual tyres.

The steel is a bar end I picked up at a local scrappy and it wasn’t free cutting! However it cut OK with generous drips of Rocal cutting fluid. However I have used EN1A for other tyres, chalk and cheese!

Ian.

View attachment 156794

That is broadly how I make wheels in 2mm scale, with EN1A as a stick turned between centres, but they will usually have an integral stub axle for the split frame pick up. I don’t use a form tool but finish with gravers and files as the tread form is quite simple. Making the spokes is another story…

Tim

 

[Brian McKenzie]

Free machining EN1A will be easier to both machine and to purchase than any heavy wall tube. Decades ago, I made my first drivers with steel tyres - and to ease the load on the then tiny 'Super Adept' lathe (purchased £14 with my schoolboy pocket money), like Jim, had the supplier drill out the steel core. Then, for some years, wheels were cast and turned integral from nickel-silver castings from waxes ex vulcanised rubber moulds.

These days, I use only stainless steel, but have experimented with some cast iron bar that is continuously cast in a type of centrifugal process. It is very easy to turn (think butter), and can be obtained from merchants who sell cast bronze material for bearings.

Photo (ex the video below) shows a raw tyre blank being trepanned for a bogie wheel, from the same bar previously used for the driver tyres.

These are the most recently made wheels for current projects, 27inch dia wheels for Meyer type loco bogies, and drivers for a diesel shunter.
Today's task is making the brasses for those siderods.



. . . and for those oddball track gauges, Peco Streamline gets knifed through the centre, then stuck down using double-sided tape

-Brian McK.

 

[Overseer]

It is probably worth mentioning the there are two versions of EN1A. The version with lead added, EN1A (leaded) is the same as 12L14 in US and Australia while EN1A is the same as 1214 in the US and Australia. The leaded version is like working with brass while the standard version is free cutting and quite easy to work with but does benefit from using cutting fluid while turning.

I would like to try cast iron but haven't found a source at a reasonable price yet.

 

[simond]

Cast iron is lovely to turn, but very very dirty.

 

[michael080]

Very interesting thread.
I am not familiar with UK steel designations, but googling brought up some info.

Isn't EN1A the more recent designation for the same material called BDMS earlier?

EN1A seems to be named 1.0715 / 9SMn28 / AISI 1213 / EN11SMn30 and it contains max 0.14% C, max 0.05% Si, 0.9-1.3% Mn, max 0.11% P, 0.27-0.33% S
The leaded alloy would be 1.0718 / 9SMnPb28 / AISI 12L13 / EN11SMnPb30 and it contains 0.14% C, max 0.05% Si, 0.9-1.3% Mn, max 0.11% P, 0.27-0.33% S, 0.2-0.35% Pb.

Michael

 

[Crimson Rambler]

In my apprenticeship I was told EN stands for Emergency Number and was a system introduced at the time of the Second World War as a way of classifying the myriad of different steels then available from the private steelmakers. Steelmakers gave their steel varieties different names whereas under the EN systems steels with similar properties could be readily identified (and substituted) since they would have the same or similar EN numbers.

As it proved to be one of the few occasions when government interference proved beneficial it was retained and subsequently expanded.


Crimson Rambler

 

[Marc Dobson]

I have solved the problem of machining wheel rims I have found two companies that are willing to do it for me at a very reasonable price. I have some samples coming my way very shortly and if everything goes to plan I should have the first of my wheels ready for Doncaster show in june. I have ordered a 3ft, 3ft6 and a 4ft rims to start with. So watch this space.

Marc

 

[GrahamMc]

In my apprenticeship I was told EN stands for Emergency Number and was a system introduced at the time of the Second World War as a way of classifying the myriad of different steels then available

Curiosity led me to Google this and my search took me to this page. The story is interesting but what made me want to share it is the menu on the left of the page that covers a whole range of steel related subjects, grades, treatments etc. that might be of interest to modelmakers. It looks like a good starting point for anyone new to the subject and interested in using these materials.

 

[-missy-]

Hi.
I use this lots at work, steel comes in all sorts of flavours these days. Copy and paste it into your useful bits folder...


Missy