7mm Martin Finney 7mm LSWR M7

[7mmMick]

I thought best to start this as a separate thread as it's a real break away from my usual North Eastern builds. That said if I were to choose to build something from another company, the LSWR stable isn't that far removed from all things Worsdell so i'm by no means unhappy. My chosen loco will be number 51 in as built condition in 1905, I have a lovely photo to work from but unfortunately cannot post it as it's from a current publication. The build at this time of the loco's life it certainly building it at it prettiest stage and represents the loco in lovely lined LSWR Livery, with polished steel fittings, copper and brass pipe work. This link should help with an idea of where I'm going;

LSWR ( Nine Elms ) Drummond Class M7 / 2P 'Motor Tank' 0-4-4T 245

So what's in the box? As usual the sturdy box reveals a number of quality etchings, lost wax and white metal castings along with sundry items of wire and brass bearings. I will build the loco with the compensation beams as suggested and for this I'm using the Finney horn guides/blocks. The build will be S7. As with all Martin's kits it lends itself to both F/S and S7 with not a great deal of work to build in either scale. In addition buffers and wheels are supplied by Slaters. The wheels will be reproofed by @eastsidepilot


I always like a good read through the instructions first and doing this gives a complete overview of all the loco's built, some historical notes and explains the changes in the class over the years. The vast majority of these are catered for so it's important to choose a loco and time period and work from a good number of photos if possible. Because i'm waiting for the wheels reprofiling I've made a start on the upper works. First is the footplate which comes as a base plate and a top plate as an overlay, seen here in the etch
You can see on the overlay at the top that the footplate is 5thou half etched. This provides the correct thickness of footplate when fitted, the oval openings to the rear provide an area to flood the joints with solder to attach the footplate. I briefly made the mistake of soldering to the edge, which distorted the thin 5thou, I quickly rectified this and instead soldered to the inside keeping away from the edge. The instructions are broken down into sections and heres the first complete;



At this stage the beginnings of the splashers are also added. These were fitted with no issues and the tops are again 5 thou so easily manipulated into place, making sure they are preformed as close to their finish position as possible. An important part of the loco to get right as this section really forms part of it's face.

The next section is the smoke box and boiler. In true Finney fashion several options are available. I've opted for the boiler without etched boiler bands as the lining process will provide sufficient bands and I don't like etched bands as I think they look over scale. Once rolled there are three formers to fit and a neat little part to join the boiler at the bottom, which incorporates the brackets that would hold the cladding on. This makes the join almost seamless which is ideal and something I haven't seen before;

Once soldered up .45 wire is supplied to represent the remainder of the bracket and the front former is tapped 6ba to allow screwing it the smokebox. Also .8mm wire is attached to the rear former to provide pegs to fit to the cab front

 

[7mmMick]

Following the boiler is the smoke box and here there are a number of options here as through their life these locos parts removed and some had different splashers, smoke box wrappers and fronts. Also there's the options to add the rivet details seen later in life along with the dogs around the bottom of the smokebox. This unit folds up easily and I then selected my required front, which when offered up to the footplate fitted perfectly.

Again the wrappers are 5 thou which makes for an easy spin through the rolling bars and then easy fitting to the front and rear

This assembly then screws to the boiler, with a former in between to represent the joint ring between the two. I now moved onto the next section which is the cab area. The cab front is folded up and fits into the footplate as shown. A quick check to make sure it's all square, which it was and then a little tack solder for now to retain it. This part and the front of the splashers will all be soldered up solid when I'm happy all is ready and square.


So this is progress to date, you can see where the boiler pegs through the cab front and on loosely fitting the boiler smoke box assembly all looks spot on, if not a little strange without tanks and bunker!

All in all there's about 8hours work here and a good lump of that is cleaning up etchings cusps and preparing parts. This means there has not been a lot of construction time. The kit absolutely falls together and i'm thoroughly enjoying myself, a joy to build

Mick

 

[Steph Dale]

Mick,

That's a very tidy build. I built one of these in 4mm about 20 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I've got a couple to build in 7mm too

Whoever took that shot of 245 at York must have had a small thermo-nuclear device to assist with the lighting; it's in a horribly dark part of the hall. I tried taking some pictures at Easter and most came to absolutely nothing, even with the flash on.

Just watch the details if you're using 245 as a reference. She's largely in as-withdrawn condition so there's a multitude of rivets, brackets and goodness-knows what else which shouldn't appear on your model. I'm not 100% sure on the livery either, just can't put my finger on why!

Steph

 

[simond]

Have to say there's some damn fine soldering of Mr Finney's kits on WT at the moment..

Methinks my game will have to raise....

Lovely build Mick,
Best
Simon

 

[7mmMick]

Mick,

That's a very tidy build. I built one of these in 4mm about 20 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I've got a couple to build in 7mm too

Whoever took that shot of 245 at York must have had a small thermo-nuclear device to assist with the lighting; it's in a horribly dark part of the hall. I tried taking some pictures at Easter and most came to absolutely nothing, even with the flash on.

Just watch the details if you're using 245 as a reference. She's largely in as-withdrawn condition so there's a multitude of rivets, brackets and goodness-knows what else which shouldn't appear on your model. I'm not 100% sure on the livery either, just can't put my finger on why!

Steph

Thanks Steph,

Looking at 245 at York there a a huge amount of differences to the as built condition, most glaring being the lack of water heating system and the Duplex pumps, which are strange looking things. Luckily I know a bloke in the know who's sent me some cracking pictures of 51 and her sisters at the right time period and I will work from these fo the detail differences.

Have to say there's some damn fine soldering of Mr Finney's kits on WT at the moment..

Methinks my game will have to raise....

Lovely build Mick,
Best
Simon

Cheers Simon, I work to the rule the more solder you put on the more you have to take off. With that in mind I use as little as possible and the cleaner the work and neater the join you'd be supprised how little you need.

Mick

 

[Steph Dale]

Mick,

There are going to be some differences between your chosen loco and 245 anyway; the class had some significant batch differences. 245 is an original short frame M7, 51 was a long frame loco built some 8 years later. The other preserved M7 (30053 at Swanage) is the right batch for yours if you can find some photos.

You're right about the feed water heating equipment, it certainly looks strange but seems to have been reasonably effective. Unfortunately the maintenance costs negated most of the efficiency gained and Urie gradually had the equipment removed.

Nice kit, lovely loco, what more can I say really?

Steph

 

[daifly]

Mick
You are probably aware of the construction article in MRJ 136 and Chris Wesson's review in MRI Vol 3 no.8 (April 1996). I can let you have a scanned copy of both if you need them.
Why do I have these? I bought Steve Cook's M7 kit a while back and will also be constructing it to S7. It's such a good-looking loco that this dedicated GWR man couldn't resist it!
Dave

 

[Ressaldar]

It's such a good-looking loco that this dedicated GWR man couldn't resist it!
Dave

You're not getting an old softie are you Dave? You will be telling us that you have only just come in from an all night guard of the village duck population next

cheers

Mike

 

[7mmMick]

Mick,

There are going to be some differences between your chosen loco and 245 anyway; the class had some significant batch differences. 245 is an original short frame M7, 51 was a long frame loco built some 8 years later. The other preserved M7 (30053 at Swanage) is the right batch for yours if you can find some photos.

You're right about the feed water heating equipment, it certainly looks strange but seems to have been reasonably effective. Unfortunately the maintenance costs negated most of the efficiency gained and Urie gradually had the equipment removed.

Nice kit, lovely loco, what more can I say really?

Steph

Thanks Steph, I'll not refer further to 245 but looking through the web 53 is well photographed and the odd video really helps to inspire. I agree completely with your sentiments and thanks again for all your help with research etc

Mick
You are probably aware of the construction article in MRJ 136 and Chris Wesson's review in MRI Vol 3 no.8 (April 1996). I can let you have a scanned copy of both if you need them.
Why do I have these? I bought Steve Cook's M7 kit a while back and will also be constructing it to S7. It's such a good-looking loco that this dedicated GWR man couldn't resist it!
Dave

Dave,

I wasn't aware of the articles and I've just routed through my MRJ's to find 136. The cover photo is fantastic and skimming the article makes me want to get straight back to the bench, although the wife and kids won't be hoppy as we have an afternoon at the Yorkshire mining museum planned. So the M7 will have to wait till tuesday, when I have my next day off. I don't have Chris's article though and would be grateful if you could PM a copy please if you don't mind.

Cheers Mick

 

[Scale7JB]

As per Richards build I'll repeat to myself, " I must not start the V2's.. I must not start the V2's..!"

JB.

 

[dibateg]

I'm sure I heard my Finney V2 box rattle last night! Nice work Mick.

 

[Wagonman]

Have to say there's some damn fine soldering of Mr Finney's kits on WT at the moment..

Methinks my game will have to raise....

Lovely build Mick,
Best
Simon

You mean that's SOLDERED? :0 I thought it was just hanging together through sheer willpower...

 

[Dan Randall]

Looking really good so far Mick and I would echo the comments on the cleanliness of your soldering.

What really amazes me, is how well the boiler appears to be rolled. When rolling smokeboxes or boilers, the tendency is for the edges to be flatter, having parted company with the rollers. I know you've soldered formers front and back, but even so, I would expect the edges of the "cut away" area, to be trying to straighten out between them. What's your secret please?


Regards

Dan

 

[mickoo]

First post second page explains one way to avoid this flattening at the edges

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/ind...-rolling-taper-boiler.4898/page-2#post-131484

And post 1031 here on rolling roof's might help.

My 7mm dabblings | Page 52 | Western Thunder

The basic idea is to support the material and continue the curve as the ends clear the forming rollers.

Mick D

 

[Dan Randall]

First post second page explains one way to avoid this flattening at the edges

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/looking-for-advice-rolling-taper-boiler.4898/page-2#post-131484

And post 1031 here on rolling roof's might help.

My 7mm dabblings | Page 52 | Western Thunder

The basic idea is to support the material and continue the curve as the ends clear the forming rollers.

Mick D

Thank you Mick. Having followed your links, I realised I had read them before, but had obviously forgotten about them.... Fortunately, 7mm Mick was paying more attention than me!

I guess with so many people sharing their hints and tips on here, it's very easy to lose track of stuff. Perhaps we need some sort of index, with links to these various techniques?


Regards

Dan

 

[daifly]

Whilst I agree entirely with the observation about the availability here of some excellent tis and advice, my view is that the current search engine is superior to an index. An index needs to be created and maintained - a massive amount of work given the volume of information with has been and continues to be provided.
If you want to find information on, say, rolling boilers, then simply put 'rolling boilers' into the search box and hit enter.
The only significant limitation is that a search on a word of three characters or less fails. So instead of typing 'MOK' type 'Modern Outline Kits' and hopefully the poster will have at least once used the full title before abbreviating to the acronym.

Unless you'd like to create an index for us..........?

Cheers

Dave

 

[Heather Kay]

Don't forget the tagging system. It's something I try and remember when starting a new thread.

 

[Dan Randall]

Whilst I agree entirely with the observation about the availability here of some excellent tis and advice, my view is that the current search engine is superior to an index. An index needs to be created and maintained - a massive amount of work given the volume of information with has been and continues to be provided.
If you want to find information on, say, rolling boilers, then simply put 'rolling boilers' into the search box and hit enter.
The only significant limitation is that a search on a word of three characters or less fails. So instead of typing 'MOK' type 'Modern Outline Kits' and hopefully the poster will have at least once used the full title before abbreviating to the acronym.

Unless you'd like to create an index for us..........?

Cheers

Dave

Embarrassingly, just like Mick's boiler rolling tutorial, I'd sort of forgotten about the search facility.... Of course WT doesn't need an index - I'm off to sort the garage out and blow some cobwebs out of my head...


Regards

Dan

 

[daifly]

Don't forget the tagging system. It's something I try and remember when starting a new thread.

Heather, you are very good at starting a new thread for each build or topic. The tags will work well with that discipline. However in the threads of others that have had several title changes and ramble for scores of pages, hundreds of posts and innumerable digressions they will be of little use.
The Search facility should still get lucky as long as people can spell!
Dave

 

[7mmMick]

Thanks for posting those links Mick. Certainly using other material to carry the edges really helps. In this case the boiler is 5 thou half etched which makes it very easy to roll. I have a set of 10' rollers and they made short work of this job and the boiler, I'm assuming being very thin never suffered from the flattended edes. The only issue being that the 5thou makes for a very soft tube and is quite vunerable so you have to be careful. In reality this will cause no issue once the build is finished and it's the handling whilst building that causes the greatest risk. For example I dropped it in the sink washing it off and caused a very minor dent, my best panel beating job and a serious amount of wet and dry has sorted it so no issues, but something to be mindful of,

Mick.R