Mickoo's BR modelling

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I'm a little surprised you haven't used copper clad paxolin to mount the wipers on; it's more permanent
than a superglue bond and also allows for the easy fitting of bus-bars.
Steph

Steph,

The answer to that one is very very simple, I don't have any! LOL It is on my shopping list but not an immediate requirement for testing a theory etc. A third set will go in once the motor position has been finally decided and the current plastic ones were a real quick set up to attach wipers. There's very little gap between the body inside and the inner chassis, probably about 4.5mm each side, so my plan to use Copper Clad Circuit Board (CCCB) along each side will require the tracks to be less than that width. The plan would be to use a strip that is two tracks wide, the inner track soldered to the chassis, the outer track holding the wipers with feed wires suitably attached.

Trust me, I've turned our workshop upside down looking for some spare CCCB which for an electronics workshop for UKs largest port is a bit remiss that we don't have any, or apt proof that these days everything is modular and throw away, so quick fix little circuit boards attached to the back of electronics racks are long gone.

I've seen top wipers on HO locos before and not had an issue, but then there were not run that heavily either.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Right, onwards, door stamping etches, as noted above some are ok, others are not, just basic fundamental errors in measurements, quite a lot in some cases, how? I've no idea, must have been a blond day when I drew those particular door etches.

None the less I persevered and fitted what I had and fettled the two or three that were wrong to fit.
IMG_7360.jpg

IMG_7359.jpg

IMG_7356.jpg

Cruel close up pictures first, without glasses on they look good, TV glasses, still passable, reading glasses....hmmm not happy at all.

Do they look like the real thing? Yes I think so, they mimic the triple layered stampings of the 1:1, are they better on than off....probably.

So what's wrong, well up close the middle depth stampings don't always line up with the original etches on the model, that's fine I can adjust them to suit, were talking 0.05-0.1mm here but still visible if you look. The original door etches have holes for handles, in the wrong place if you have door stampings, despite blanks behind I cannot get them to fill with solder effectively, so body filler later will have to suffice, also the original doors have extra parts where the catches are that do not represent the locos I've seen....with hind sight I should of cut them off before putting the doors on.

Second problem, they're bloody difficult to put on!, just a gnats off square and it shows like mad, so some panels have been on and off several times, next time to ease this I'll add the stampings with the body sides flat before adding the body sides to the chassis, same with the kit doors....the instructions probably tell you to do that anyway LOL. To compound the squareness issue I've noted that some of the etches are slightly off square themselves (part of the etching process I reckon as the artwork is square) which compounds the problem.

What's for the future, not sure really, I like the triple layered effect it gives, I don't like that the hinge and catch sections don't quite line up with the kit doors underneath, I don't like the kit door catch tabs with holes in (well cut them off!, I may do that next time) and I think the kit doors might just have a too large a gap between them....again were talking 0.1-0.2mm.

So to get better doors with the current method will require another CAD and phototool to adjust the catch and hinge straps, but, if your going to do that then you may as well make complete whole new doors....as David suggested months ago, that way the stampings will be square with the door, the hinge and catch straps will line up and the gap between the doors adjusted just so and with correct hinge tabs.

The only downside with new doors is that you can only have two layers of etch, thus the hinge and catch straps will be the same depth as the main door stamping....is this an issue? Yes, is it a bigger issue that the ones already present? Probably not.

Is it even worth it? Yes I think so, given the level of detail in the kit in other areas then yes I think door stampings are necessary (others mileage may vary).

Conclusion, a worth while exercise that sort of worked LOL, am I happy with what I have? No, I suspect in time it'll niggle me more and more and the whole lot will come off and I'll opt for David's solution of a whole new set of doors with only two levels of stamping, but! The fact that it's only two layers instead of the required three will also niggle me :headbang: The only other option is two layers but leave off the hinge and catch straps from the etch and add them on the model later from very thin Plasticard or even thin tape. Can you even get Plasticard 2.5 thou thick ?

Just so y'all understand what an earth I'm trying to achieve, hereth some 1:1 pictures.

IMG_6933.jpg

Image1.jpg

IMG_6919.jpg

IMG_6932.jpg

Note door stampings differ between hinge side and catch side, 4" between raised areas on the hinge side and 7" on the catch side, that kinda messes with your head when doing the CAD art work LOL.

Wow, reading back, what a load of spuffle! I should post less more often LOL.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Excellent stuff Mick, :thumbs: ........should have knocked the whole loco out from the start:rolleyes: ....and make sure the driver can see the bloody signals from the cab window:))

...Ducks under workbench:D

Col.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Excellent stuff Mick, :thumbs: ........should have knocked the whole loco out from the start:rolleyes:

The thought really does keep crossing my mind, in NS would be nice :) However there's already two maybe even three kits of 08s available, so another is questionable, especially as the the MMP one is 90% accurate, it may be more appropriate to just do the art work for the small % that's needs modifying, so far that's the body side doors, the footplate sheet the fuel tanks (oval inspection hatch a little too low) and new etches to make the bonnet top and rolling hatches.

I looked at the model again this morning and noted the middle door on the LH side (bonnet is front of loco) isnt quite in the right place with a gap between the hinge stampings and the hinge its self, so that'll come off tonight and get moved to the right location.

The other niggle is the half etch lines on the body side between the doors, obviously there to assist with lining up the kit door etches and getting them square, they're not on the 1:1 locos I've seen, so, some how I'm going to have to fill them and sand smooth.

I still have a second kit to do (bought two) and may well CAD work some whole new sides up, doors as well, couple of ways to get what I want so need to mull it over and get cracking in Autocad.

Finally, please don't take my obsessive detail bent as criticism of the kit, OOB, it'll build a nice model, my problem is I have three of these to crawl all over in minute detail, and the other problem is, once I've seen the detail I feel obliged to add it, a discusssion I've had with many recently, sometimes.....you can have too much information and you actually end up going backward.

Off to York tomorrow, so lots of detail pictures of A4's to come and an order for some works drawings from the NRM archives LOL.

... ....and make sure the driver can see the bloody signals from the cab window:))

.....Ducks under workbench:D

Col.

LOL, no issues with signals on the pilot anymore, took a cab ride in a class 66 and 70 last week and signals sighted for all classes ok :thumbs: Thats about the 'only' thing I got right last week!
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
The other niggle is the half etch lines on the body side between the doors, obviously there to assist with lining up the kit door etches and getting them square, quote]
Mick -

That is not so. They are there on our kit to represent the borders of the areas you have chosen to half-etch. I think we discussed this before.

Regards,

David
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
Yeah - stop faffing around with those hinges and go sort that heap of earthmover tyres out!!!!!!
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
Sorry can't get away this week - I'll know next Monday what days are free next two weeks, and will give you some options if that is ok! There's no rush at my end.
 

Pugsley

Western Thunderer
Right, onwards, door stamping etches, as noted above some are ok, others are not, just basic fundamental errors in measurements, quite a lot in some cases, how? I've no idea, must have been a blond day when I drew those particular door etches.
Whilst I share your pain, I'm also glad that I'm not the only one who does that kind of thing!
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Whilst I share your pain, I'm also glad that I'm not the only one who does that kind of thing!

The odd 0.05 - 0.1mm is understandable but some catch stampings are out by 2-3mm! Just really silly and odd as the rest are virtually spot on.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
The thought really does keep crossing my mind, in NS would be nice :) However there's already two maybe even three kits of 08s available, so another is questionable,............

Yep see your point although what I'd really like is one of these
LNER. Diesels. March.jpg

Enjoy the NRM mate.
ATB, Col.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Yep see your point although what I'd really like is one of these
View attachment 22961

Enjoy the NRM mate.
ATB, Col.

Mmm interesting, not seen that variant before, quiet a few differences from the stock 08, chassis still looks like a stock LMS design which has stayed pretty much the same through out the majority of the differing classes, I keep looking at the horn guides on ours, half expecting to uncover a hidden stamping saying...made in Derby 1948 or something LOL

Interesting roof line, note raised day tank over the electrical cubicle and lowered roof over the engine, radiator and generator sections, but it's the roof top vents (aka clerestory style) on the sliding engine covers that's a departure from the norm.

Interesting also to see details differences in the battery and exhauster boxes on 8002 from its two earlier sisters, as well as the engine room door handrails which again differ on 8002 from the first two, I wonder if NRM has a GA or pipe and rod drg of these? Should do if they were built at Doncaster, they have them for the EM1 class so possibly for these shunter's as well. Look at the footplate sheet overhang at the front, necessitating extended lifting hooks

Which all reminds me I need to pick up my copy of the LMS versions from the Wild Swan collection :thumbs:

There may be little mileage in another 08 etching but a limited run of some of the earlier sub variants might bear further examinations.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
More info

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&type=D&id=69

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p395858735/h3A96D253#h3a96d253

NRM drawing office gives P90 and P91 as pipe drawings LH and RH for four locos in EO370 and a GA drawing Q121 for EO370, however, the NRM list also lists EO370 as a singular 4 cylinder shunter in other sections. If I've got time I'l ask them to dig those drawings out and see if they match the locos in the pictures.


Mick,

I suspect the latter is the Petter/Brush loco (15004). When you get the drawings you might be surprised at how different from the other EE-derived shunters 8000-8003 actually are. Worth a look on the microfiche list too, I think I recall seeing something on that list about these locos and the reproduction costs are much lower.

And those would appear to be last group of Pre-Nationalisation locos that no-one is planning to do (assuming I'm up to speed with developments of a couple of manufacturers). No names, no pack drill though - it wouldn't be fair on those concerned (and no, it's not me either!).

Steph
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Steph,

Are any of the Doncaster drawings on Microfiche?, thought it was only Brighton and Ashford that were on Microfiche. The only list I have are what NRM supply and give no indication as to their original format, and yes I suspect tomorrow is going to give the wallet a bit of a bruising!

Regarding Eo370, your probably right, the only major difference is in the supplied electrical gear I believe so it'd make sense for Doncaster to tack it onto the back of the original EO370 order for the original four locomotives.

Didn't know anyone was planning to do any TBH and I'm under no illusion anything I do would be a threat to anyone, besides I'm always told competition is good? Maybe that view depends on which side of the fence your sitting.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Steph,

Are any of the Doncaster drawings on Microfiche?,


The old OPC lists have got all sorts of things in them. As regards the Microfiching of the various works drawings, it's true that there are some Southern works that have had bits photographed, but it's by no means universal. In fact most of those drawings that have been copied seem to relate to preservation projects.

Of course the Southern aficionados do have a slightly easier time in that these lists are pretty much indexed after the guys who are building the Brighton 'Atlantic' spent some considerable time indexing all the drawings in order to establish what original drawings were there for their project.

Didn't know anyone was planning to do any TBH and I'm under no illusion anything I do would be a threat to anyone, besides I'm always told competition is good? Maybe that view depends on which side of the fence your sitting.


Well, the Class 12 and GWR equivalent is in MMP lists (as well as Agenoria, but I suspect least said the better about that after seeing their Class 08!) and there are a number of the other pre-Nationalisation shunters available from other manufacturers such as Judith Edge in other scales. I believe another established manufacturer has plans to do the Ashford/EE locos and a quick tally up reveals the ex-LNER locos as the last significant gap. To be honest it was only meant as an observation, I'm actually pretty surprised at the relative popularity of the early diesel shunters with manufacturers and modellers. Even I'm not immune with a couple of kits here in the process of build/conversion.

Generally I agree that competition is a good thing, but I'd rather see one good manufacturer get a return on his time and effort than two struggle because they've both had the misfortune to bring out the same thing. The latter case would generally be less good for the hobby, while the former would allow manufacturers the (relative) freedom to produce kits of less popular prototypes. And yes, I recognise this isn't a perfect argument; it all falls down if a less-than-reputable manufacturer is first (or only) to bring a product to market...:confused:

Steph
 
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