Mickoo's BR modelling

[7mmMick]

Lovely work as usual Mick. I like the steel slab idea, the fact that you can secure your rivet took to it must be a great help. It looks good for marking out and helping to keep things square. I think all the effort on the frames will be worth it, to be able to view the holes through the wheels is a really nice detail. I spent quite a bit of time putting bolt detail in behind the wheels on my J73 as from some angles it can be seen as per some prototype photos. Plus I bet it would really bug you if they weren't there. Now a lot of the plate work is done what's your plan for fittings, will you need to turn some of your own ?

ATB Mick

 

[Rob Pulham]

Superb Mick, a "like" seems a little inadequate!

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

Mick brought the loco along to Sudbury today, it really is superb, a very talented and modest modeller
Tim

 

[David Taylor]

It's probably of little use for 7mm but on a 5" model I think it'd matter? Maybe not, that'd be something to worry about if and when I ever got there

View attachment 22111

There are at least as many compromises in 5" gauge as anything smaller. The wheel tread/flanges are very ugly, nuts, bolts, and rivets are much too big, etc. It's more an impressionistic thing where you're making a caricature than a scale model. But they are good fun to drive

BTW, you're doing some great building in this thread. Very impressive.

Regards, David.

 

[mickoo]

Lovely work as usual Mick. I like the steel slab idea, the fact that you can secure your rivet took to it must be a great help. It looks good for marking out and helping to keep things square. I think all the effort on the frames will be worth it, to be able to view the holes through the wheels is a really nice detail. I spent quite a bit of time putting bolt detail in behind the wheels on my J73 as from some angles it can be seen as per some prototype photos. Plus I bet it would really bug you if they weren't there. Now a lot of the plate work is done what's your plan for fittings, will you need to turn some of your own ?

ATB Mick

Mick, thats one thing I forgot to do on the front frame extension, forgot to put a row of rivets that face outward I have three options, leave alone, or drill and add scale hardware ones or perhaps try and punch out carefully from the inside, currently option one is wining by a country mile LOL. I have a similar issue with the main frames, I know there are or would be rivets on the outer face, the GA shows the drilling holes for them, but how many would be proud of the surface and how many smooth, given that these locos came from an era where they tried to smooth where they could, would the frames also be smooth countersunks?

Photos are hard to come by, especially of detail like that, again i was in a rush to get the frames squared up and stretchers in that I forgot to add some that would 'probably' show, as above, leaving well alone is the wining option at the moment LOL

Fittings, no idea at all, some will have to be bought, I have a lathe but think that purchase might be the easier option, if only to keep the project rolling along at any sort of pace, I'll do my own etched artwork for the valve gear and one or two other nick nacks in plate work that are too fiddly to hand make, eg cab front window frames etc. Other than that I haven't really thought that far ahead, I just tend to focus on the next bit really, which can sometimes have an adverse effect, as you get so far down the road and wonder why you did something one way, when clearly there was a better way! LOL

 

[mickoo]

Superb Mick, a "like" seems a little inadequate!

Thanks, it's not really that good LOL, but then I know where all the errors are, I now make a conciuos effort to try and erase them from my mind, so that they do not irritate me as much as they possibly or probably would.

 

[mickoo]

Mick brought the loco along to Sudbury today, it really is superb, a very talented and modest modeller
Tim

LOL, you give me too much credit Tim, compared to others work there on Sunday, it's still a bit 'Hornby'ish IMHO but there's a long way to go and I''ve set my level I wish to achieve and thus far am not too far off that. I wanted a no holds barred model, but am finding a realistic dose of lack of information and serious lack of time is knocking back the detail level a bit here and there, but we shall see, just 'doing' something I find is sometimes good enough.

 

[mickoo]

There are at least as many compromises in 5" gauge as anything smaller. The wheel tread/flanges are very ugly, nuts, bolts, and rivets are much too big, etc. It's more an impressionistic thing where you're making a caricature than a scale model. But they are good fun to drive

BTW, you're doing some great building in this thread. Very impressive.

Regards, David.

David, indeed, modeling the 4P can only really be impressionistic, there are limited drawings, very few good detailed and well lit photos and none survive, your always going to be on a looser in some areas when compared with say a Black 5 or more modern GM class 66.

I noticed with my friend who models in live steam gauge 1, the appeal was the moving and steaming, the lack of fine detail and almost pre war tin plate look was totally ignored for the thrill of driving live steam and these finer details never entered their cognative thoughts. I had to conceed his view and could quite easily sit in both camps at the same time with ease.

 

[David Taylor]

You could also try the Archer rivet transfers to add in the ones you missed. I'm going to try using them on my current build as I don't have a rivet press.

 

[mickoo]

You could also try the Archer rivet transfers to add in the ones you missed. I'm going to try using them on my current build as I don't have a rivet press.

David,

That's a thought! Hadn't considered them as an alternative, not quite sure how robust they are when applied to a brass model though, having never had any experience with them at all. I do confess that the rivet press I have is one of the most utilised tools I have.

 

[Dikitriki]

Hi Mick

I used Archer's on my L&Y saddle tank.......



The Archer's rivets are the horizontal ones - the vertical ones are moulded in the resin. They do not stick to brass in my experience, ideally needing a painted surface, and then to be overpainted a couple of times. Once overpainted, they are quite secure. The carrier film is visible under harsh light, but I wasn't bothered about that in this application as they represented the end of the panels.

They have their uses, but I would put them behind a rivetter and separately applied rivets.

The Fowler build is excellent Mick, and my eyes lit up when you mentioned etching your own valve gear

Cheers

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Richard,

I do like that little tank y'know LOL I actually looked at the image before the text and noted the edge of the transfer and thought 'that's modelled well' I.E. believing it to be representing the panel edge. You have to look close to see that there are two thin lines, one each side, so in the above context they seem to work well indeed.

Thanks for the notes on application, that makes more sense that applying to bare brass and yes, I have to confess, I'd rather they were punched than transfers

Etched valve gear, that'll be another opportunity for learning, I've no issues with my CAD work, just issues if it'll fit and work on the model LOL, not sure about cross heads, slide bars and cylinder/valve stuffing glands and associated hardware, probably purchase (as yet unresearched as to who dies the best castings etc) and no idea if anyone even does 4P stuff. So I might have to opt for Crab and Royal Scots bits and pieces as the Wild Swan book quotes both classes having valve gear in common to the 4p as well as the LMS Garratts. There's two types of coupling rod, plain and fluted with associated crank pin bush differences. Later in BR, plain rods replaced fluted ones here and there on the earlier (non Stanier era built) locos, simply put....look at your reference photos and stick to one or t'other chuck.

 

[Len Cattley]

Hi Mick love your build, I would use Laurie Griffin or Hobby Horse castings as they do LMS stuff. Did not Bressingham have a 4P or was it a Southend 2-6-4 (or is that the same)? I hope to buy a David Andrews Fowler tank as I would like to build 42424. Can't wait to see it finished.

Len

 

[mickoo]

Len, not sure what Bressingham had, could of been a LTS 2-6-4T which were three cylinder, all the other 2-6-4Ts (Fowler, Ivatt, Fairburn and Stanier) were two cylinder as I recall. Ivatt, Fairburn and Stanier all look very similar with Belpair fireboxes and tapered boilers and a standard cab and tank arrangement. Fowler locos have parallel boilers and flt topped fireboxes, but, early locos had Fowler cabs and tanks, later locos had Stanier cabs and tanks but retained the Fowler boilers and fireboxes, essentially Fowler locos in all but cab and tank plate work on the surface.

I have an itch for another scratch build TBH and another LMR tank engine would be nice, a LTS one would make some of the West Mersea team happy and might just be allowed to run on Love Lane as a special from or to Southend for day trippers LOL. I'd need a decent of GA's and currently the Wild Swan collection has no other large tank engines in its collection, they do have a book on the Crabs though and I do like the look of the Caprotti versions with simplified valve gear but knowing me I'd want the drive shaft to rotate and I've not yet worked out how best to achieve that There's also other irons in the fire LOL but we'll see what happens over the Xmas period when I get bored and full of Xmas pud! An AM2, AM4 or AM6 EMU has been muted LOL, I seem to be heading for that period 1958-1962 more and more with early electrics alongside steam and diesel, LMR, ScR or even ER.

 

[Pugsley]

The Archer's rivets are the horizontal ones - the vertical ones are moulded in the resin. They do not stick to brass in my experience, ideally needing a painted surface, and then to be overpainted a couple of times. Once overpainted, they are quite secure.

I found that putting a spot of Johnsons Klear where they were going to go, then pushing them into place with a fine brush helped them to stick, that was to resin though. I agree, that once painted, they are very secure.

 

[mickoo]

I found that putting a spot of Johnsons Klear where they were going to go, then pushing them into place with a fine brush helped them to stick, that was to resin though. I agree, that once painted, they are very secure.

I used to use Klear to apply a layer to matt models to smooth the paint out to stop silvering of the decal carrier film, then Klear on top to seal and a final coat of matt varnish ready for weathering.
My mate (since departed much too early in life) used to be a tank engineer in the Army and used to apply it to his boots to save polishing them for parade. Sarg used to carry a squirty bottle and spray water on their boots on parade at random, if they turned milky then they were in for it LOL, his worst task was to hand wash a Challenger that had been out in the field all day!

I've been on the look out for a replacement bottle for years, one of those I must get round to tasks. I'd heard they had changed the formulae recently?

 

[mickoo]

Right, all day in CAD produces this,


I was tempted by one or two other interest bubbles but figured this one needed a quick fix to keep it on the boil before starting something new. Time now to turn more perfectly good brass into waste and filings! Might be a little quicker than the 4P as there's less holes that require filing

I'll let y'all guess which frames these belong too, shouldn't be too hard to work out not as hard as one or two of the others I was half tempted to do LOL

I also need to start a layout thread in due course, just do something would be a start, lots of ideas but whilst juggling them and contemplating which is best I'm not 'doing' anything so I'm kinda getting to the point of just 'winging' it and doing something. Someone at West Mersea said "but what happens if at the end of it you don't like it" I've thought about that a lot and like my loco modelling, am getting to the stage where just doing something is better than not doing anything in case it's not what you want in the end. Because my interests are so diverse, what ever I do will never be the ultimate goal and yes you do run the risk of it being binned at or near the end or even half way through, but I think that as long as you enjoy it as you go along then it's a worth while exercise. A space is slowly clearing in the study for a tentative 13'x2' plank

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Len, not sure what Bressingham had, could of been a LTS 2-6-4T which were three cylinder,.............
I have an itch for another scratch build TBH and another LMR tank engine would be nice, a LTS one would make some of the West Mersea team happy .............
An AM2, AM4 or AM6 EMU has been muted LOL,

The loco that was at Bressingham and now at the NRM was a Stanier 4mt 3cyl. 2-6-4t. There should be G.A.'s available at the NRM.
I have some reference info.if you need it Mick as I built one some years ago http://eastsidepilot.wordpress.com/gallery-photos/stanier-3-cyl-2-6-4-4mt-42513/.

"An AM2 ?.

Col.

 

[mickoo]

Moving swiftly onward











The cab / firebox fits for a rough pass, I'll need to clean up the clothing so better suit the frame curves, mind the real locos are a bit hit an miss in this area too, but a little more tidying up will help.

Cab rear rear beam and platform and cab supports to sort and then onto the smoke box saddle, some extra plate work to add to the one piece stretcher but not sure how much is seen once the boiler and footplate go on.

Still not decided on whether the upper works is going to be detachable, might make the whole lot solid and then just rely on dropping the wheels out of the horn guides to do what ever work is required, will probably opt for plunger pick ups on this eventually, discreetly hidden under the longitudinal stretcher.

 

[mickoo]

The loco that was at Bressingham and now at the NRM was a Stanier 4mt 3cyl. 2-6-4t. There should be G.A.'s available at the NRM.
I have some reference info.if you need it Mick as I built one some years ago http://eastsidepilot.wordpress.com/gallery-photos/stanier-3-cyl-2-6-4-4mt-42513/.

"An AM2 ?.

Col.

Will chat about this next weekend