Mickoo's BR modelling

[Steve Cook]

Thanks for taking the time to work that lot out and post about it Mickoo, greatly appreciated
Steve

PS - Posted on behalf of Jeff P / Alcazar who is evidently so enthused he has run off to his workbench before being able to type in the words 'thank you'.

 

[mickoo]

As already noted above, 60014-17 retained their 4'3" handrails until scrapping.

Post#893

Brian, A4 cab rails, the first four locos, 2509-12 (60014-17) carried the shorter 4'3" cab handrails to match the refurbished A3 corridor tenders fitted for the new high speed service, they kept these short hand rails until scrapping. The rest of the class had the longer 4'6" handrails.

Please pay attention, there will be a test at the end of the lesson

 

[mickoo]

Brilliant Mick When I come to do my two A4s, I'll just tell you what names I want to do, and you can tell me how to build them

Actually, one I will do is Union of South Africa, with a bow ended tender IIRC.

Cheers

Richard

No problems Which kits do you have?

Your right she did have an A4 bow ended corridor tender for virtually all of here BR life but has acquired a A3 corridor tender in preservation. It is a shame that no A4 corridor tenders were preserved.





The stand pipe and tool box are additions and I'm fairly sure the filler hatch is not authentic but she appears to retain the flat top to the rear of the coal space.

Several preserved LNER 8 wheel tenders have had this area plated over with a sloping plate so that the coal will naturally gravitate down and not require the fireman to enter the tender and risk a wallop from the 25Kv, I've seen some models in the past that have this sloping plate on BR locos, not strictly correct.

 

[Compton castle]

That's a very concise answer mickoo thanks Here's Mallard on the Day !! I will want her, I have already noticed the rivet difference compared to the kit.
Picture copyright as stated on the picture and used for illustration purposes
Steve

 

[Dikitriki]

No problems Which kits do you have?

I have I x Finney engine coupled with an Ennis bow ended tender - originally earmarked as Union of South Africa,
and I x Piercy kit, also I think with a bow ended tender.

The Ennis bow ended tender for UoSA is already (mostly) built, but I might nevertheless get rid of it and replace it with a different Finney tender, and build the Piercy kit as UoSA.

Richard

 

[Dog Star]

Impressed with your knowledge about this class of speedy ducks Mick. If you do know... what ought we to be looking for in regard to front casing details of Merlin in the summer of 1948?

 

[OzzyO]

You don't want it like this then Steve?

It may also help the person that wanted to get the smokebox door as well.

I've had a look at the photos of the front ends of the A4s and some of them show what we all know as rivets, some of them may be rivets and some of them could be coach bolts that have nuts on the inside. As most of the plates would have been needed to be removed on shed. Like the front plate that has the number on it in the above photo, so that the shed staff could get to the inside cylinder and piston valves.

In some of the later photos the round headed "bolts" have now changed to flat headed bolts. It was cheaper for the works to do it that way in the later years. As these could just be bought off the shelf.

Some of the "bolt" fitting could have been to do with new fixing under the sheet metal, with the rivets from the old days removed.

This photo is also interesting in showing three types of front end lining on the front end of the A4s, it looks like only one is about the same as the one in the bottom photo.


If the above loco was painted in Doncaster it should be correct. The placement of the electrification flashes could be in any position on the E./R.
Canadian is one of the last locos that was painted by any of the B.R. steam paint shops, yes I know this loco was painted at Crewe but the two works did talk to each other. It would not surprise me if some of the Doncaster paint-shop workers came over to do some of the work (not proven).

OzzyO.

 

[Compton castle]

Yes Dominion is the best of the three, not sure what happened to UoSA

 

[mickoo]

Ozzy, quite so, hence my 'hopefully' careful use of the words fixings and fittings, thereby not falling into the trap of rivets and the counting there of

All of the casing is removable so the fixings should be bolts with either nuts behind or set screws into threaded steelwork.

I've left these images full size so you can see the bolt head detail, they look like bolts with a domed cover, some of these may not be genuine original bolt heads, though I suspect Mallard would be as it has only had cosmetic face lifts over the years I believe




This view inside shows the threaded plate work to accept the bolts, the row of bolts highlighted will be the outer row of bolts on the front lower panel between the buffers, I.E. those which attach the buffer casing to the loco, not the coupling casing, they will be behind the steel fixing plate. Threaded holes makes sense as access behind here would be awkward for the fitting of nuts.

The two larger nuts to the right fix the lamp iron to the casing via studded rod probably welded to the base of the lamp iron.

 

[mickoo]

Impressed with your knowledge about this class of speedy ducks Mick. If you do know... what ought we to be looking for in regard to front casing details of Merlin in the summer of 1948?

Thank you, tricky proposition, I've not got much early BR stuff so it might take a while to winkle it out and photos at that time, even if available, might not give us the detail we want, I'll see what I can find but it might not be quick.

 

[mickoo]

I have I x Finney engine coupled with an Ennis bow ended tender - originally earmarked as Union of South Africa,
and I x Piercy kit, also I think with a bow ended tender.

The Ennis bow ended tender for UoSA is already (mostly) built, but I might nevertheless get rid of it and replace it with a different Finney tender, and build the Piercy kit as UoSA.

Richard

Never heard of Ennis ?

I think Finney only offered A3 corridor and A4 smooth new type non corridor tenders in his range for the A4 kits. I have the 1928 A3 corridor and will reserve comment until I get to grips with it and research a bit more about the coal space and compare with the GA's

The Piercy kit looks very good, going by the photos on their site and comparing with the Finney kit, I can't see much between them.

 

[Scale7JB]

At a guess I would have said that Dominion probably has its original paint still?!

JB.

 

[alcazar]

Thanks for taking the time to work that lot out and post about it Mickoo, greatly appreciated
Steve

PS - Posted on behalf of Jeff P / Alcazar who is evidently so enthused he has run off to his workbench before being able to type in the words 'thank you'.

OOOPs......

Run off to my workbench? muahahahahahahahaha.
since all I have so far is the cab, and it has already had the lacquer removed, not a lot worth doing. I need to drill the upper handrail hole, but have been advised NOT to do any bending until I have the body parts, so it's still in it's plastic wrapping in the flat.

 

[alcazar]

Am I still allowed to post, having been so rude?
I would think that the lining shape as applied to DoC and Mallard in the two BR era pics is about right, the other two are horribly wrong, preservationists wrong.

Mallard's would have been done at the Plant, DoC at Crewe, but she was only cosmetically refurbished, so the lining would have been there on, say, 60026, which was a donor, for all to see. Even Crewe couldn't then get it wrong...and we only need to look at some diesel paint jobs from there to see how good THEIR work was.

Ennis? Is that the ex-Jim Harris/Acorn/Big4 one?

If so, still available from ACE Products at a good price, plus he WILL do the tender separate.

 

[oldravendale]

Steph and I saw Dominion of Canada in the museum near Montreal. Looking at the web site now it looks as though conditions are greatly improved.

The museum was impressive but clearly lacked investment although it now looks as though that situation has improved considerably. I commented at the time to our guide (in the most diplomatic way possible) that D o C looked a bit scruffy and was told that they were unwilling to do anything about the paint job as it was the original finish. At that time the museum building was terribly cramped and the roof was not in the best of condition. There were museum exhibits and locos stored outside too, and D o C was being kept in pretty much the best conditions they had available at the time.

It's appearance when it landed here was not a surprise and actually does not indicate a lack of care. More importantly for this thread it was in the same finish it had received before it left these shores.

Brian

 

[alcazar]

It had actually worn quite well, then.

 

[Steph Dale]

I have to agree with Dad, my impression of Dominion at Cite du Train was that she was respected, admired and loved by the museum. Our guide was certainly very enthusiastic about having her there and absolutely committed to retaining her original finish. The focus was very much on conservation, rather than restoration.

It was lovely to see the restoration done by the NRM when she came over and I've no doubt she'll go back as one of the stars of the museum.

As an aside, if you get the chance do a Google search for the Terrier they've also got. She looked very sad when Dad and I saw her, but the most recent restoration and paint job has been to a very high standard. Proof, if needed, that both British locos (and all their other exhibits) are in good hands; they know what they're doing.

Steph

 

[oldravendale]

Hi Mick.

Here's some more A4 front ends for you, just in case you need some more references.



60024 (again) at Waterloo on 26th March 1966



60029, don't know where, don't know when (that'd make good lyrics for a song, wouldn't it?). Don't tell me too much about it yet, Mick, as it has to go on my prototypes photos yet!



Sad picture indeed, but just a bit of front end rivet detail around the buffers. This was the remnants of 60011 at Darlington Works on 3rd October 1964.

Brian

 

[alcazar]

I think 60029 is at Doncster Carr loco.

As for 60011, the fact that it's in the works yard and NOT the cutting up area opposite North Road station, may mean it's under repair. I have seen a pic of it in Darlington Works yard around that time, awaiting the return of it's boiler.
Darlington only started dealing with the A4's regularly in 1963 when the Plant closed to steam, so had no stock of spare pacific boilers like Doncaster used to have.

 

[oldravendale]

I think 60029 is at Doncster Carr loco.

As for 60011, the fact that it's in the works yard and NOT the cutting up area opposite North Road station, may mean it's under repair. I have seen a pic of it in Darlington Works yard around that time, awaiting the return of it's boiler.
Darlington only started dealing with the A4's regularly in 1963 when the Plant closed to steam, so had no stock of spare pacific boilers like Doncaster used to have.

Thanks for the thoughts on location.

Sadly 60011 was scrapped at Darlington. My records say it was withdrawn from Ferryhill on 11th May 1964 and although records say it was scrapped at Darlington in May 1964 the job was clearly not finished in that month. I suspect that it was in use for spares, which may be why it was still in the works yard although strangely, at the time of my visit the scrapyard was totally empty except for a couple of Sentinel bodies in use as accommodation for the workers there.

Brian