Mickoos European dabblings

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick,
DB used push pull operation with some BR38 and, I think, BR23. I've got a Railway World article about it somewhere...
Steph
They most certainly did :thumbs:

Here's some detail on the Br.23 Wendezug locos, quite a lot actually ;)
Die Bundesbahnzeit - Wendezug 23er

These photos also show how big the Br.23 really is, it towers over almost all other German locos, it's almost like 10mm and 1:32 scale, to see a Br.23 pilot a Br.44 really shows the extra height on the Br.23.

I keep meaning to try and get hold of this guy and see if he's open to printing off some of his photos A4 size and selling them. He's a big hitter on Drehscheibe with dozens and dozens of threads littered over the years, really good source of prototypical photos if you have the time to trawl through them all.

All of the drawing sites I've found do not have detailed drawings of the Br.23 or Br.44, the 23 I can perhaps understand as it's a modern loco and the last built and probably not that interesting to many, but the 44 is a popular engine. Drawings do exist in the EJ special on the 23 (DB not DR) but they'd need scanning and they are a GA as opposed to the detailed ones that you can get from HEBA or Harrystrains.

I haven't found a page yet for the Br.38, but I would really like at some stage a Br.38 with Wannentender and 'Norwegian' cab. The current Marklin one has the wannentender with open cab, there being two types of wannentender used.
Standard cab
http://rail-sim.de/forum/index.php/Attachment/21886-DBBR38-10407-jpg/
Norwegian cab
http://rail-sim.de/forum/index.php/Attachment/21885-DBBR38-10408-jpg/

The Norwegian cab being the rarer of the two.

Becasse did a nice job on a Norwegian cab Br.38 as well
BECASSE WEATHERING: Edler Wender: die Br. 38 von M&L

Br.78 were also popular Wendezug loks in their time, just need to find some details and images to see what upgrades are required.
 

Richard Spoors

Western Thunderer
Mick, the Beschreibung reprint book of the BR44 with technical drawings was published by ELV mbH in 1985. ISBN 3-923967-29-2. I have 4: BR01, BR41, BR$44 and BR50. I think that's all they did. www.ebay.de is one source. Another is a simple google search which might bring up a German second hand book seller. The problem then is you find a host of other books you would like!

Cheers

Richard
 

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mickoo

Western Thunderer
Richard,

Pleasure to meet today :cool:

Cheers for the link, there's apparently many many more to choose from :eek:

http://www.lokmalanders.de/41372.html

The site looks dead but is a good list none the less, still no Br.23 though :headbang:

Crossing threads here, I left Reading just after we spoke and managed to sort the W1 cab art work this afternoon, so will whizz up a brass template to cross check tomorrow :thumbs:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Well the next target project is one step closer.

It's damaged and has no original box but a fully working Marklin V200 with sound (well the description is loose....what ever that means, probably loose wiring after being dropped) for just under £240, you just cannot go wrong with that ;)

$_57 (2).jpg

$_57 (4).jpg

And the damaged side.
$_57 (5).jpg

$_57 (1).jpg

From the pictures it looks like the buffer, front step and front brake hanger are all broken, but supplied. The body work is easy to fix and the sharp eyed and fleet of foot amongst you will have noted the other obvious problem...it's a SBB version.

I've been hand wringing over a V200 for weeks now, getting hold of an Eph IV is hard, unless you want to pay around £750 plus shipping and second hand ones don't come up often, but even if they did there are some niggles that would need fixing, primarily the mold lines on the nose and a few other little issues. Either way you need to respray and re letter in one guise or another, not really for the weak willed at £750 really.

There's also the issue of the old and new builds, this clearly is a new build with central motor and cardan shafts under the floor like the real thing, no Frankenstein motors here I'm pleased to say.

Anyway, at this price I've no issues taking the razor saw and sharp tools to this shell, I'll cut it all back to factory spec and then add all the bits that need doing. Most of the roof panels are incorrect in one guise or another so new etch ones up there, those scrubber exhausts have to go and new cab vents etc, it looks like the Swiss top head light mounting just pulls out and hopefully reveals the correct DB molded one underneath. Once it's all cut back to basics and corrected I am toying with trying to get a casting from it, even if it's just the nose part, the body sides and roof can be etched easily enough.

All of the cab glazing will go and new etched window surrounds are in order and I may opt for the odd open door here and there. The lower battery box skirts are part of the chassis so they have to go and new etched ones will be grafted onto the body and the chassis will need rebating to clear them. Whilst I'm at it the grills will go and new etched ones added, if we can manage individual vanes on a 4mm Deltic then a 1:32 V200 should be no task at all!

The engine rooms are out, there's more than enough space in there for better detailed interiors and being as the sound card may be defective....and the model was so cheap....I might just rip it all out for a Zimo or ESU chip. To round off the body work I'll probably ditch the whole cab and work up an accurate etched one, those windows up front are pretty big so a lot of the effort will be worth it.

Down below the wheels will be skimmed to a more prototypical appearance and the bogies detailed and tweaked...brake shoes in alignment etc

The last task is of course a repaint, I want two locos loaned to Denmark and as mentioned earlier one was a blue beige version, that's the easiest to replicate with simple masking lines. The other one...yes there will be another one...will be red and that's a more difficult task with the V and upper bodyside strip to mask and spray, I may bite the bullet and get that commercially done. Finally will be a new set of decals, I'll probably commission someone to do those as finding a commercial source so far has hit a brick wall, some can be self printed but the really small lettering needs a better commercial printer to retain the detail.

That's the plan anyway ;)

Here's an inspirational image I keep going back to, #31 and behind #12 at Nyborg ferry terminal, in the background Nohab MY1141 :thumbs: and even further behind a couple of MH shunters, the one on the right looks like it's shunting German coaches, bit odd for them to be here really.
220 031-9 + 220 012-9_Nyborg_01.jpg

1981 is a great year as DSB was changing colours and there were still plenty of wine red locos around as well, a MkI Mz with full wrap around screens is a must, sadly the pill box MkIV didn't arrive until later...rule 1 applies ;)

For the V200 details have a trawl through here
V200 Exterior
V200 Cab

Note this engine (#33) looks like it has been correctly reverted back to smooth roof cowls, unlike 12 and 31 above which have a lip around the fans, however it has the post 73ish painted stripes.

They also do a set on the V90, but no V100 or V160 I'm afraid.

Next in the cross hairs is a Marklin Bw Flensburg V160 in red :cool:

Enjoy.
 
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mickoo

Western Thunderer
splendid find.

I hadn't and I see he does lots of different classes which basically opens lots of doors for resprays and donor models, I.E picking up cheap Eph III models and respraying, it was only the lack of decent commercial decals that was holding me back.

The ones in the link look silver so that'd fit the red engines, need to check to see if he does a cream set for the blue/beige coloured locos, another rabbit hole to fall down this evening :eek:

Wonder if he does 2½" or 5" gauge ;)


I'm too easily distracted these days LOL
 

Temeraire

Western Thunderer
As a side note Mick, I've had a few sets of N gauge/2mm decals from Andreas and the quality is very good indeed. Easy/friendly guy to deal with too.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
As a side note Mick, I've had a few sets of N gauge/2mm decals from Andreas and the quality is very good indeed. Easy/friendly guy to deal with too.
Cheers, thanks for the feedback.

I've had a quick whizz around the site, have to say it is slick, professional and comprehensive :thumbs: which fills me with confidence.

I think mine are going to have to be special order as I need white V200 decals, not the silvered ones which seem to fit early Eph IV red engines after looking through my images, but that's not a problem.

I think all the ones that worked into Denmark were were BD Hamburg sub shed BW Lubeck and the V160 and V100 I'm after would be BD Hamburg, sub shed BW Flensburg but I need to check somewhere the details of these, I have a few engine numbers to choose from that I have photos of, none show the depot data clearly though, time to trawl the web and books I fear, though Andreas may already know this info given a loco and rough date I suspect.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
As an aside I've found out that SBB 18462 was originally V200 014, one of the eighteen loaned to DSB in 81.

Several engines ran as semi set pairs and one pair that's been photographed often is 14 and 22 and the only photo I have that my father took, though I do remember it well is of #22 at Fredericia, I'm sure I have one other but have not been able to find it as yet, taken at Aarhus.

220 022-8_Fredericia.jpg

I've tried to lift the number off the second unit but to no avail but there's good odds (Ladbrooks would probably offer 20/21 on) it'll be #14 I also need to really collate all the images I have off the web, there may be another that is from the same angle and shows the brown weathering evident on the second unit.

In another turn of fate, my photo of #22 shows it to be one of the very few locos to retain the polished beading, probably until the end and she is certainly looking a little care worn, BW Lubeck clearly didn't send their best!

Only two V200.0 were repainted in the blue/ beige paint scheme, #12 and #60 both served in Denmark so an ideal mix would be #14 + #12 or #14 + #60 but so far my records are not fulfilling that desire....but I've a lot of images to collate as yet ;)
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
I was there for that, quite good wasn't it.
It was a very good weekend and with so much going on in the Eifel region you didn't know which way to turn :).

My best memory is the joy on the faces of a group of small children taken into the cab of a DB 628 diesel unit at Bullay on a normal service by the train driver and sitting at the controls.

The closest we got to this in the UK were the 'Steam on the Met' weekends.
 

Brian Daniels

Western Thunderer
As an aside I've found out that SBB 18462 was originally V200 014, one of the eighteen loaned to DSB in 81.

Several engines ran as semi set pairs and one pair that's been photographed often is 14 and 22 and the only photo I have that my father took, though I do remember it well is of #22 at Fredericia, I'm sure I have one other but have not been able to find it as yet, taken at Aarhus.

View attachment 50546

I've tried to lift the number off the second unit but to no avail but there's good odds (Ladbrooks would probably offer 20/21 on) it'll be #14 I also need to really collate all the images I have off the web, there may be another that is from the same angle and shows the brown weathering evident on the second unit.

In another turn of fate, my photo of #22 shows it to be one of the very few locos to retain the polished beading, probably until the end and she is certainly looking a little care worn, BW Lubeck clearly didn't send their best!

Only two V200.0 were repainted in the blue/ beige paint scheme, #12 and #60 both served in Denmark so an ideal mix would be #14 + #12 or #14 + #60 but so far my records are not fulfilling that desire....but I've a lot of images to collate as yet ;)

I was there for 5 days with a go anywhere rail ticket, as you say you just did not know which way to go but in the end we had a cracking time.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
The big red Zepplin has landed ;)
IMG_5117.jpg

Going back over my last list of requirements I can knock a few off as the model is better in the flesh than seen in images, the grills can stay as they are pretty good in all honesty, having said that the main radiator intakes have a sheet panel over them that extends up and over onto the roof line, the model ones stop at the cant rail line. It should be possible to shave off the moulded ones and fit an etch over lay.

The side skirts are better than expected and the big gap seen in the sellers photos was simply down to the body not fitting properly, mainly because when the model took a dive it ripped out the brass threaded inserts from their fixings, one is totally destroyed and the other three were not re-fitted correctly. A little TLC and that's all sorted now.

IMG_5120.jpg

The front damage isnt too bad and the buffer has already been fixed back in place, it's a temporary job but will probably become permanent I suspect ;) The sand box filler is too badly damaged to be repaired effectively so that'll come off and new etch one added.

As suspected the top headlight fitting is easily removed, but the resultant hole and lamp underneath is over size by about 30%, so that'll be trimmed back to the body, filled with appropriate plastic tube and a new metal tube (not brass but something steel or aluminium to get the right colour) added with a polished front bezel.

The shunters step is broken completely at this end and at the other end another is partially broken, also one of the cab stirrup steps is badly bent, it might go back ok but being plastic will probably break so I'll just cut them all off and add new metal ones with etched grills.

There's also a massive slot in the front fairing for the coupling, that'll have to be filled and blended in and as noted previously the engine and cab roof panels are wrong so will need smoothing back and new etch ones added in due course.

The less said about the cab interiors the better, even 1:72 Airfix cockpits back in the 80's were more detailed than this :eek: So it'll need a whole new cab interior which will be a model within a model hopefully.

There's much more to do, some tweaks here and there to bring it back to a 1980's DB machine by removing the SBB modifications which I'll cover in due course.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Wow nearly two years to the day since this interest bubble had some attention, so in my usual cyclic manner it's time to dust off some Euro projects whilst the interest is here.

Recent dabblings in Autocad for 3D work has been slow and painful, despite being rather good in 3DSM, I'm not in Autocad, not helped by the fact that Autocad is not a native 3D platform; like Rhino or Autocad Inventor which are specifically designed for 3D artwork. Thus doing anything in 3D is like pushing water up hill.

For up the coming Finney7 models like the B1 and A7 it was essential to try and get to grips with lofting with profiles and working up a method of doing it reliably and consistently. Those that know 3D for printing will know that the model must be solid or 'manifold' for the process to work and that's the valley of many dead ends in Autocad; none the less some small progress has been achieved at, I must say, huge expense in time.

I should of chosen something simple like, well a buffer housing or chimney but no in typical fashion I went and picked about the most complex shape you can think of, a Baureihe 110 Bugelfalte or in simple translation terms a 110 trouser crease :eek:

Like the 103, I've hankered for a 110 for as long as I can remember and cannot recall seeing one in either O or 1:32 that didn't require an extension of the mortgage, same could be said for most German models in those scales really :D so it was a roll your own project.

First off the real thing, and there's plenty of them, they're the DB electric version of our class 47, hundreds of them and plenty of colours and guises to choose from, I had the good fortune to see some of them in the mid 80's at Hamburg.

110 438-9-2.jpg
438 in blue which I think is Intercity or semi stopper service colours...really must get up to speed on my German services.

112 267-0a.jpg
267 in TEE red and cream, the cast DB biscuit has gone as has the buffer fairings and lower buffer beam skirt but I'll add those to one of mine....if I ever get time to make more than one.

Mr Brutzer has hundreds of photos of them and a nice colour TEE version is here

112 311 Hamm 26.08.79 by Bahnbilder von W. + H. Brutzer, on Flickr

As can be seen the cab profile is not the easiest to render or work up, the crease on the front needs to be retained but blended in on the roof above and behind the head light.

Now I admit it may not look much, certainly not worthy of the man hours to get this far, but now that I have a reliable and consistent work flow it won't take much longer to tweak it and get it into shape. The plan is to 3D print the cab with window openings and head light casings, then try and replicate it in resin like Simon did with his DMU. To that end I'm not overly concerned if there's the odd small ripple in the surface as it'll all get smoothed by hand and blended in nicely as master core.

The cab plug runs from the rear wall forward and from the floor upward, either side of this etch metal work is the order of the day as it's mainly large flat surfaces.

So, efforts so far.
Br110 3D-Temp0031.jpeg

Br110 3D-Temp0033.jpeg

Br110 3D-Temp0037.jpeg

Couple of things immediately wrong which I'll address tomorrow (they only really become visible once you render the object), the cab wall thickness is way too much, I need to increase the size of the inner plug which is used to carve the inside out with a Boolean subtract function. Second, the top headlight casing is a touch too large so needs to go on a diet, the cab windows are a bit wide and the centre pillar is consequently too narrow.

There are no scale drawings that I can find of these engines so it's all by eye, I do have a decent set for the vanilla cab (which is also very close to if not identical to the 140 / 141 and 151 engines) which does give a very good basis for the general shape and size, but the finer shape is pretty much by eye so far.

There are some visible creases between the cab front and roof 'forehead' and with the cab roof main, these are mainly from the render engine but if they show up in the 3D print are, or should be, easily smoothed. At the moment is the general shape and a printable object I'm primarily after which so far looks like I might finally get.

Still do over and above the comments noted above, quarter light windows and cab door openings with that oh so trick blended cab step recess and then finally the flat recess areas for the glazing which will be held in with a etch surround.

If this all goes well then it will, or should, finally let me get one of these as well, again seen at Hamburg.

103 177-2.jpg

These I do have half decent drawings for, note, 177 still carries the cast DB biscuit :thumbs:

Right time for some Zzz's busy day tomorrow.

MD
 
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