Mr Grumpy

Discussion in 'WR Action' started by Mr Grumpy, 28 April 2015.

  1. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    The deed has ben done….I have placed my order for my DJH class 47. A few weeks to wait as my kit will be made to order.
    After bending many ears and gleaning much useful info from WT members, I have decided on the following spec:

    DJH class 47/4 (or 8 see below)
    DJH lighting kit
    One ABC motor bogie (Brian will taylor make the bogie using the DJH etch as a pattern so the bogie side fames should just ‘fall on’) Plunger pickups on trailing bogie
    XL decoder (Still to decide on which sound project)
    Cliff Williams 35mm round speaker and enclosure
    Slaters wheels.
    CPL or MMP loco screw couplings

    I will use solder for construction, possibly Fry's 99 degree, to save tinning the brass etches when joining to the white metal/pewter castings. I was surprised that some people use a micro flame torch to join the larger castings. Don't know if my ability or luck would hold out for that one!

    My existing stock is mostly banger blue, mostly BR WR and, because my first loco was a Triang Hornby D5572, a lovely filthy green 31, all numbered pre TOPS. I haven’t run my locos for years, as I enjoy building things (even a whacking great cement silo for my JLTRT presflos)……but thats another story.

    However, my thought process seems to have gone a little haywire, as I really fancy building my 47 as DRS 47805. I just happened to be on Basingstoke station as it roared through, opening up 1/2 way along the platform. The photo eventually made it’s way to my desktop, and the loco has just nibbled away at me ever since….build me….build me!!


    Now, as I don’t get round to running anything nowadays, and my layout has become a 12’ diorama I guess I could have it in which ever livery I choose. Still a few weeks left to decide. (I think the 47/8 is basically a 47/4 with long range fuel tanks.) My money is still on banger blue 1662 IKB!;)

    I’m clearing down my work bench for the ‘big build’ and just getting round to the painting stage of my Thumper. Just need to fit the XL decoder and the awful excuse of the cast resin engine. :shit: (A painted toilet roll would have done just as well if not better). Also just weathered my MMP B tanks. Brilliant kits, lovely wagons. Bearing in mind each wagon took me around 87 hours to build before painting, don’t hold your breath for a quick build of my 47!
    I have spent hours reading the threads and topics on WT, and am slightly in awe of the quality and excellence that prevails. I feel like someone who has just left college without good A levels and somehow snuck in to Oxford! So, for me to post my build, is, for me a big thing. I’m always glad to accept advice, and reasonably thick skinned enough to take some knocks, thats life! I want to improve and learn, gaining new skills and experience. Hopefully, if and when the MOK re-built MN returns, I will have the confidence to tackle it.

    Just need patience for that big heavy box to arrive.........................:rant:
    40126, BrushType4, Rob Pulham and 3 others like this.
  2. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Beautiful photo - when was the occasion?
  3. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    Thanks Dog Star,
    I just happened to be on the platform after arriving from Reading. Noticed the tell tale light formation in the fog, and very luckily here's the result!
    The date was 20th March 2013 around 11.50am. I think (unconfirmed) the two coaches had just been repainted at Eastlegh.
    Dog Star likes this.
  4. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Good choice, the DJH 47 is about the best out there shape wise, early castings were very crisp but like all white metal kits tend to suffer a bit as the production line goes on, nothing drastic or horrendous, just little pock marks and things like windscreen beading might not be as crisp as the first ones.

    I keep looking at a Heljan 47, more for speed of use, but the DJH still holds sway in my books. I still have a MMP 57 under my desk to finish off, it was my first etch kit so a few errors and it may well be easier to convert that back to a 47 with revised roof etches than go for a DJH kit.

    Eitherway, you'll be impressed with....the weight and the box, they do come in very nice boxes!

    Looking forward to this.
  5. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    Very annoyingly I bought a DJH 47 kit several years ago. The castings were outstanding, but I lost my nerve and sold it on!
    I was hoping the MMP diesel range would be back by now, as I love David's kits.
    The thing is, the 47 is a big beast, and the pewter may emphasise this more.
    I know there have been critics of the Heljan range, but they all work for me!
    I toyed with Buying David's upgrade kit, but the 47 looks good, the roof detail looks great and It was perfect for anyone without the skills or time to build a kit to make the move to 0 gauge.
  6. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    The DJH is probably the best out there for overall shape. I've got a part-built MMP one here which is a fun way to while away the odd hour here or there.

    The Extreme Etchings roof fans and grilles would be a worthwhile addition to the DJH one I'd think. I really should order one myself, but have been concerned about any potential difficulties with casting quality. Interesting Mick should mention windscreens in that context, Extreme Etchings are due to bring them out, I want a couple of sets for my Class 47 and 56.

    I'll also be interested to see how you get on with the loco's haulage when it's built; that enormous weight and only one bogie driven might not be ideal. On a small layout it should be okay though.

    I wonder if I could encourage you to have a think about either split axles or ball races on that trailing bogie as they'll likely help with the running.

  7. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    Hi Steph,
    If I get round to running my trains again, my 47 will pull 4 Heljan Mk1s for around 10ft, unless I get planning consent to knock through to the kitchen!:D
    The wheel bearings are internal, rather than set in the axle boxes, so not sure how I could use ball races? I used them on a dogfish wagon and was amazed at the free running achieved.
    By using split axles on the trailing bogies , I guess this would make the whole bogie live. In this case, would the loco loose three potential wheels to pick up/ return the juice to the track?
    Had a look for the Extreme Etchings fans and grilles but couldn't find any on their site :(
    Last edited: 28 April 2015
  8. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Well, if using ball races I'd just ream the bearing holes in the bogie to take the ball bearings in a rigid chassis. To be honest I wouldn't even bother doing that with the centre axle on the trailing bogie as DJH apply a horrible but effective trick (over-size bearing), which allows for track uneveness and the small amount of sideplay necessary on a central axle. You'd need FR156zz bearings; flanged, 3/16"x5'16", double shielded, for your application. They're easy to get hold of from a variety of sources (even from a link not a million miles away if I may be permitted a small plug...).

    For split axles I'd insulate the bearings from the frame with double-sided copper clad, I managed it on my MMP 47 bogies as this post in my thread shows. There are other ways of doing it - with your simple fold-up bogie I might be tempted to just split the bogie - although you'd need to check how the bogie outside frame fitted. If you insulate at the bearings the sideframe isn't an issue. And with two bogies you've got a chance to practise!

    One other thing has just shot through my head (it happens occasionally); I think there's an error in the bogie centre distance, although I can't find the reference at the moment. Anyone else know about this or am I hallucinating again?

  9. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    Plenty to think about there!
    I had a chat with Richard Carr and the remedy looks to be very straightforward. I understand a spacer is fitted between the rear cab bulkheads and the bogie pivot casting, bringing the bogie centres in to correct centres. We shall see how successful this modification is during my build!
    Feeling a tad out of my depth already! :(
    Last edited: 28 April 2015
  10. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    Hi guys,
    I'm on the scrounge for the template that MMP provided in their class 47 kit to drill the 4 holes reqd in the face of Slaters wheels.
    If anyone has one, I would be grateful if I could borrow it please!
  11. Simon Varnam

    Simon Varnam Active Member

  12. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    Hi Simon,
    Many thanks, PM sent.
    Grumps (Richard)
  13. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    While awaiting my heavy box to arrive, I have started to browse through some of my pics of 47s, looking for detail I can add, weathering etc.
    I came across a batch taken at Southampton 10 years ago, of Freightliner 47s, with interesting views of the roofs.
    Can anyone shed a light on the tube between the two fans? Was this a recent mod or fitted from new? Also, I love the rusty exhaust port, and wondered if this was common place, or because of neglect in the twilight years? As for the windscreens, I thought you only came across this look on over weathered models!
    47 Exhaust.jpeg 47 Fans.jpeg 47 Windscreen.jpeg
    Len Cattley, BrushType4 and Dog Star like this.
  14. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Just a guess, but could the pipe be for balancing the radiator header tanks? Admittedly there'd have to be another one somewhere else in the circuit(s) to actually allow transfer of the coolant, but this would allow any air in the system to move between the two radiator groups.
  15. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    It's quite a small diameter pipe, I wondered if it could be something to do with measuring air velocity between the fans to balance their air flow across the radiators?
    Last edited: 6 May 2015
  16. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Not sure on the pipe, it only seems to have appeared on a select few locos, notably Rfd locos and more often as not ones with the MU connections, but others without MU have it and the locos are often freight only in the high 200 to low 300 bracket.

    The hatch furthest from the cab is the radiator header tank and that item inside the square hole is more than likely a pressure relief valve. That closest to the cab I think is only a inspection hatch, so at a guess I'd think the pipe was an overflow pipe, possibly to a retention tank with an alarm to warm the driver it is boiling over. Having said that and looking closely at the pipework and fittings it doesn't look like water pipe, more like conduit, so the small round hatch could hold a float switch and warm of low coolant.

    Here's another photo in greater detail

    Page 41 of the LMR training manual deals with engine cooling

    but no mention of the external pipework, probably because the manual is as built and not 25 years later after many modifications.

    The other manuals may be of interest

    Regarding windscreens, oh no, there's far worse than that ;)

    66 738_4e33.jpg

    Every year after the RHTT trains finish the locos are filthy, some are cleaned pretty quick, others last a few weeks like this.
    Last edited: 6 May 2015
    Dog Star and Mr Grumpy like this.
  17. 40126

    40126 Western Thunderer

    The 66 looks well weathered :thumbs:

    Steve :cool:
  18. Dikitriki

    Dikitriki Flying Squad

    Will any modeller dare to put the smiley face on the cab side window?
    isleofthanet and 40126 like this.
  19. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy Western Thunderer

    Thanks for the bedtime reading mickoo!!
    I the photo you have attached is the self same loco that I photographed at the same location. I seem to remember there were a few guys clamouring for some 47 shots before the security bods came to move us on! Turning 180 degrees, you get a great view of the container crane doing it's stuff. An interesting location, with plenty of 47s, 57s and 66s in abundance with a nice looking Freightliner 08 pottering around.

    I have seen a few of those GBRf 66s in blue and yellow!!:D
    Last edited: 7 May 2015
  20. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    It's the kind of daft thing I would do, and keep a copy of the photo for evidence!
    40126 likes this.