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Discussion in 'Resources' started by Jordan, 24 September 2014.
Could have fooled me Mike
I think that the point I was trying to make, was that as someone pretty new to WT, it was the warm reception I received when I joined, along with what felt like a valuing attitude from other members to my posts, that really stood out for me, and made WT seem particularly special.
I've tried to offer this same approach to others in return, and thereby tried to promote this approach myself.
Thus it is this attitude that makes WT unique for me, and not so much the various modelling genre covered.
To this end, I wonder whether the general topic of Railway Modelling, is actually a red hearing in this debate, and that the real issue, is one of how we sustain / promote a forum that values people.
It's an unarguable fact that forums, large or small, will occasionally fizz a bit. I'm sure things'll settle down. I'm happily carrying on with both here and RMW and I do like the the fact that one is different to the other.
Anyway wasn't this thread about a magazine or something? Still waiting for mine; probably slowed down by their visit to Scaleforum. Looking forward to it anyhoo
Continuing to have fun..
What a bunch of tosh.
Phill, hand back your sheriffs badge and step back out into the garden. I'm pretty sure you had another Warship to build and I was looking forward to it.
If it's more do'ers that are needed then we need to recruit people who build for a living - who else has enough throughput? Even they may not have the time stop and take photos every five minutes.
I note the chap who's building Iceni Road has virtually no comments on his thread from other members. If you want to see a layout being built, there's one - being ignored.
There shouldn't be a timetable or post count or any other form of pressure in a hobby, or it's very nature changes by definition. A hobby is something you do in your 'spare' time, and while you're not doing it it's nice to talk to people who share your hobby - even if they don't have to time to do it right now either.
Back OT, I don't read magazines, but I did buy some books at the weekend. Right now, reading is the only part of the hobby I can do.
Mine too, I subscribed on Friday afternoon.
Does that refer to the posts before, or the writing immediately afterwards?
Thats a bit rude, served with a hint of belittlement and a side of encouragement.
Really SteveO? There is a whole raft of people who have done exactly that, stopped, taken photos and the time to explain and demonstrate. This place is littered with threads like that. Very few of them are professional yet they have all contributed to the core of this forum. Throughput is not, and never has been the be all and end all - it is the contribution and act of doing, engaging, demonstrating and explaining that is appreciated. I guess you could also argue, what inspires you most? Watching someone do something because they are driven by a passion and and a want to own something, or watching someone do something for money. Both have their interests, and if we are honest, watching and learning is good whatever the source, but what inspires you the most? We have had more 'do' on here recently and I don't think any of the extra was from a professional source.
But it has generated likes and some comments. It isn't being ignored.
So lets just make this place like every other place then, eh? Talk, wheat, chaff. Just for the pleasure of socialising?Or killing time until the next big thing, next great idea strikes... Sorry, but I'd like to defend this place as somewhere where the majority of the posts are were about doing and demonstrating, sharing models and ideas alike. I want it to stand out in that regard. I don't want it dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. It may well be spare time, and you may not like having demands thrown upon yours, but I feel that is what this place stood for and I don't like its dilution. That may not bother you, but it bothers me and sometimes I feel that we are being dragged down and away from where we started. Why should this place mould itself to your vision as opposed to you accepting it what it stood / stands for? Surely, if you have the time to type, you could do something far more constructive.
But you still post on forums, so not entirely true
Very well put, Steve. When you out it like that I can appreciate better your (and others') concerns. I also accept that my view should count because I have yet to contribute any modelling content.
If that is how it should ideally be (and I could not disagree), then the only grey area - and that appearing to cause the current difficulty - is finding a generally acceptable level for the types of post which help to put a bit of soul to WT - the occasional personal or light relief moments, the SBB maybe. Looking back at early threads there seemed to be plenty of it interspersed amongst the solder card and glue even then. Is it this that sometimes is enough to give people who keep to the sidelines a nudge to come forward and participate and which might lead them to post their work?
Isn't it the soul or character and spontaneity thus created that sets WT apart from magazines along the lines of FRMR?
If I had to justify my post 106 above it was no more than an effort to lighten what was becoming quite a sombre thread. If it made a few people smile then it did its job, even though it is nothing to do with modelling. Even the Blue Brigade is beeter than nothing, even if some of us will never be paid up members
Anyway, next job for me in my modelling journey is terminating yet more SWA and finding a way of providing / fastening skirting in the railway room to complete the floor (not exactly riveting stuff). Oh, and mouse-proofing it….
P.S. Oh - and the real difference between WT and other forums seems to me to be the almost total lack of rude / negative posts (other than the introspective ones which I suppose is inevitable)
I must admit I didn't intend to open quite such a can of worms when I started this thread, in all innocence, about a new magazine...
You guys want a REAL cat amongst the pigeons moment??
What with all this kicking off, and other things on here, in the last few days I have not only considered resigning myself from the Admin, but leaving this whole Forum.
There I said it. NOW go have a field day with that.
I've thought about things some more, a few further ideas have formed. I'll use these lines from Steve as a handy starting point.
One of the things that stood out for me about Cynric's posts were that they had an experimental quality to them. Ok maybe there was ordinary stuff in there too, but I got a sense that he was always eager to try something new, rather than accept the norm. It gave the idea of being at the cutting edge in the same way that the early period MRJs did. I find this experimental approach to be wonderfully engaging and entertaining, a breath of fresh air in the stodgy morass of accepted practice.
I feel that it's important to say that we shouldn't confuse or link cutting edge with ever finer standards. Sometimes the two will go together, but there's no direct linkage between the two. I believe that it's possible to be cutting edge in OO gauge with code 100 track; cutting edge Hornby tinplate collecting not a mutually exclusive proposition. Many of my favourite model railway things on the net aren't particularly finescale, the wonderful 'Frankland' over on RMweb springs to mind.
I get a bit bored with the usual techniques, even if it results in a good crisp model. [warning: broad generalisation] A lot of the finer scale stuff seems to be take a model (rtr or kit) apply scale bits bought off the shelf, ta-da finished model. [/warning: broad generalisation] I'm not sure that the democratisation of S4/P4, S7 etc is a total win.
How does this apply to us here. Well I'd suggest that we try to concentrate on what we did that might be different to the norm rather than showing how well we did something. This would seem to be more in tune with the original feel of the forum and inject some vitality back.
Yes, well put Steve, and likewise Osgood.
Without wishing to "discriminate" I sometimes think that each of you represents the very best of what WT is about, Steve's carefully constructed doing threads covering a multiplicity of approaches and Osgood's well judged wit, both funny but also thoughtful, and having now been the "subject" of it in this thread acceptable from anyone's point of view and non partisan.
As far as the subject under discussion goes, I stand by my observations but equally accept that they will be baffling to a large number of current WTers. They are also not particularly positive, but as I said I cannot see Phill's departure as anything but negative, so sorry about that.
On the positive side, a lot of the ensuing comments were very thoughtful and show the esteem in which this place is held and the efforts a lot of people make to contribute positively to its continuation.
More introspectively, I don't think that it is feasible or a good idea to prescribe what sort of posts are good or bad, it seems to me that "content is king" however and that ultimately it is on it's content that WT will be most fairly judged, which all of us as posters might keep at the back of our minds, without letting it kill spontaneity or the need to make a tit of oneself from time to time.
There is also something positive here in the sense that we can have a thread like this one run over several pages and with everyone able to say just what they like without the whole thing imploding into chaos of one sort or another.
With regard to comments about this being like RMweb, well apart from the vast numbers involved in RMweb and the fact that it is part of Warner's then I'm not sure that there is much else that is different.
The most "RMwebish" (in a strictly perjorative sense) aspects of this thread to me were those that got angry and attempted to tell others what they ought and ought not to say.
One further thing, prompted by Jordan's comments.
I don't think that any of the posts in this thread should be taken as a criticism of the way the forum is managed by the current admin team (and I include Phill here) though I realise that the comparisons between the early years and the current forum could be read that way. I should have made this more explicit in my own posts. As Simon has said content is king, and we bear a collective responsibility to each other to make this place, pleasant, engaging and worthwhile.
Right, I'm going to make something and take photos of it.
Well, that's a very interesting total deconstruction of my post, albeit taken out of context slightly. Thank you for singling me out.
Personally, I don't mind if Phill is a moderator or not – it doesn't matter to me or possibly many people (except, perhaps, other mods). What does matter is that he continues his thread – which I was really enjoying. So, no, it wasn't rude or belittling. And as far as encouragement goes, it was for continuing to post, which doesn't sound like that's going to happen either.
What you seem to be saying is, if we're not doing anything right now then we shouldn't bother to post anything. Is that correct? Well, I don't need to ask, because that is EXACTLY what you've written. If you speak for a majority, which you seem to be, then that's fine by me.
I have a young family, my own company with temperamental staff and I just found out yesterday I sold my house, so I'll be looking for a plot to build another. I have, at best, an hour a week to 'do' something, and that time is spent drawing and planning – not something that generally generates much interest (as I've found out...). Clearly, I don't fit the mould you've cast for membership. I find that a shame – and shameful.
I'm afraid your original post did come across as rude and offensive to Phill - and you owe him an apology. He has put a lot of time and effort into WT, and deserves far, far better.
As for 'recruiting' people who build for a living. No thank you. With the honourable exception of those who have made their way here already, most of the amateur builders on here will knock spots off professional builders who have to cost their time.
And yes, this site was set up to do and show, and to respond to those constructive posts not to aimlessly chat with your mates - there's Facebook, Twitter, even the phone for that.
This is an official FS play nicely warning - for everyone. Think about how your posts come across - in fact, think before you post.
Now for me THIS and Phills resignation would be a serious game changer with regards to the forum. Unfortunately I don't have time right now to elaborate as I have to go to the hospital with the wife yet again.
I have resisted from posting before hand hoping all parties would come to their senses but am dismayed at the turn of events . This now seems to be descending into acrimonious counter comments and would wish everyone to take a step back and really think what they are posting. Yes we all have opinions but that is all they are , doesn't mean you are right or wrong . I feel we are in danger of digging holes we cant climb out off at the detriment of an excellent forum .
Lets have a bit of common sense and back to modelling etc .
In lieu of hearing something from Phill himself to say he was offended by my post, I sincerely apologise to you, Phill. I also recognise the hard and largely unrecognised work he has put into WT (the same goes to all Mods). But this has nothing to do with his concerns for resigning his position. Why don't we all read what he's written in this thread to remind ourselves – there seems to be an issue here that is being swept under a bulging carpet, while complaining that we need a new broom.
I wasn't talking about idle chat (although there's a heap of that already, and a dedicated channel for it!), I was talking about modelling chat and research assistance. But I see that's clearly out of the window too. I, personally, have never posted any 'chat'.
I'm afraid, and quite sorry, that I don't 'fit' here. There are others too that don't seem to fit either; post to picture counts of something like 1000:1 or similar – who are notable by their absence. Will you also target them too?
Isolating and discriminating people due to their personal circumstances is something I definitely do not want to be a part of.
Just in case there was any misunderstanding on your part SteveO. I was & still am deeply offended by your previous post #127
That said Phill - Can I please ask, beg even - that there is now a 96 hour armistice on this thread to enable everyone to back off and give the FS the chance to consider what has been said and to determine the way forward.
As I said earlier, I believe there is now a crisis of identity which has been amply evidenced by what has been said, and that, argue as we might, the general membership are not going to be able to agree. Unfortunately for them the FS must now do it for us. I appreciate that this is anathema to The Guv's light touch but things have been said here and flags so firmly nailed to masts that there is a real chance of a schism. Both (or even all) sides then lose.
Give them the chance; and remember that this discussion is being conducted in the full glare of the internet .... And to the interest of certain other sites.