On Heather's Workbench - Premier Line Backwaters

john lewsey

Western Thunderer
Hi Heather if you don't have them with the kit I have some cast brass roof handles if you'd like I can drop some up to you they look a lot better than bent wire
John
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Hi John

That would be great, thanks. A lot of the castings are missing, though I suspect they may have migrated to a "carriage bits and bobs" box during the original build.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Right, an update on the laser cutting idea...

I spoke to JLTRT today, and it seems a "standard" DXF file would do the biz. All that means is I need to master CAD of some kind. Best Beloved had one of those cheapo TurboCAD programs on one of his PC laptops, so I sat down and scratched my head over it for an hour or two.

Once I'd got the basics, I managed to knock together a compartment side or two that more or less fitted the etched body side. Then I thought, why not just print the side out in full colour and stick that in, rather than go through the faff of getting plastic cut.

So, I think I'll end up dumping out of TurboCAD, and starting again in more familiar territory to produce a full colour rendition of the interior panels which can be printed on decently thick paper.

Onwards and sideways. :D
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I sent an order in for some CPL brake telltale castings on Monday. They arrived today. Another prompt service.

No piccies, so far, today. I've been out in the great outdoors today, on the semi-regular trip to Wisley Gardens for photographicating plants.

I have a question, though. Well, more of a conundrum, really. I've pored over the few motor train photos of LNWR vintage I can lay my mitts on, and I can't work out whether the driving trailer ever had the brake telltale fitted externally. On the model in question, the non-driving end is the end with the handrails and steps, and I am pretty certain telltales were not fitted to that end. So, it could be deduced that lack of evidence is not evidence of a lack. Alternatively, the telltale could well be fitted internally to the guard's compartment/driver's position.

What does the team think?
 

Tony West

Western Thunderer
Heather,
don't know if this helps but at least one LNW diagram of six wheel picnic saloon had the tell tales fitted at the steps end. This was because there was a lavatory water tank in the way at t'other end !.
Good luck !!, Tony.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
at least one LNW diagram of six wheel picnic saloon had the tell tales fitted at the steps end. This was because there was a lavatory water tank in the way at t'other end !

Ha! No lavatories in this train, but if there's a prototype for everything I may as well fit the telltale in amongst the steps.

Thanks Tony!
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I have to admit progress has been slow this week. What with sidetracks into CAD, changing my mind about using CAD, and other conundrums, I finally sat down today and set about the buffer beams.

My plan was to replace the cast whitemetal buffer beams, which have integrally cast buffer housings, with fabricated ones from scrap etch. I'd already drawn up the essential details, as you may recall in an earlier post. I started to mark things out, and then decided I was on the wrong track.

Instead, I opted to modify the existing castings. Various things are in favour of this route, not least the large fixings and depth of the beam itself.

IMG_6646.jpg

On the right is the original, that on the left after I've been at it. Essentially, I chopped off the cast housings, drilled out to accept the brass versions, replaced the brackets and coupling reinforcement, and added lamp brackets.

The second attempt, I managed to retain the cast brackets and coupling reinforcement plate, which speeded up things a good deal.

IMG_6648.jpg

Here's the first one, again. The holes at the rear are for the assembly bolts. The kit was designed to break down into three main components for ease of painting - floor/underframe, body, roof.

IMG_6650.jpg

I've been studying the photos again, and I think I've worked out where the various pipes go, which will be sorted out quite soon. I hadn't noticed before, but there doesn't appear to be a steam heating pipe at the driving end: presumably it was terminated in the guard's compartment during the conversion process.

The driving cab windows ought not to have those inserts, so they'll be coming out soon. I also need to relocate the body end lamp bracket, and provide it with a companion. Oh, and refix that cant rail etched strip.
IMG_6662.jpg

Here's the driving end from underneath. The buffers haven't been fitted properly yet, just positioned for the photos. I need to concoct a workable springing system for them. A conventional coupling spring has been used, and a small brass wire hook added to allow the coupling to be hitched up under the buffer beam in a prototypical fashion if required. The buffer beam castings have been glued to the floor plate, and the bolt heads you can see pass through both to the captive nuts in the end of the body.

IMG_6654.jpg

Here's the other end of the coach, showing the simpler modifications to the buffer beam casting I shall use from now on. I have decided that I shall fit the passenger communication gear to this end of the driving trailer. I haven't found evidence that it wasn't fitted, nor have I found any to the contrary, so I shall fit it anyway. It'll add to the clutter on the ends nicely.

IMG_6655.jpg

Inside the driving cab end, you can see the bolts that hold the body to the underframe. The floor is 1mm thick styrene sheet.

IMG_6660.jpg

I found a load of castings in one of our many bits boxes, which I think were intended for these kits. They must have been separated out at some stage, only to have been forgotten about when the coaches were sold on to their new owner. You can just make out the daylight behind the hinges. Hinges are formed from a folded etched part, inserted through the holes in the body from inside the coach. I'll need to fill the holes, even though the interior ought to cover the gaps.

IMG_6661.jpg

Finally, a quick view of the body reunited with the underframe for a spell. While I ponder further on the interior, and fitting the various pipes to the ends, and how to fit the roof - which will not be trivial, which will become apparent later - I may turn my attention to detailing the bogies, fitting them to the floor, and adding final brake linkage bits to the underframe.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Seriously, you'd think this build would be a lot easier, wouldn't you? I just can't seem to get things started in any meaningful way.

Anyway, I've been getting my head round interiors again. This time, I've set things up in a more familiar pooter-based drawing environment.

Screen Shot 2013-08-20 at 15.53.56.png

Measuring the brass body sides, I worked out the end compartment is subtly different in width to the others. Based on drawings in Jack Nelson's excellent book, I drew up sides that I think resemble the interior of a third class compartment. The window apertures are larger than the etched sides, so there's a bit of give in the fitting. The impression of three dimensions is made by the subtle use of dropped shadows in strategic places. Hopefully, the colour is close to a varnished mahogany.

The compartment partition walls incorporate the seating material. I've sourced some period advertising material (from the interwebs) which I will reformat to better fit the three panels above the seat. These will be printed out on another sheet, cut out and stuck on the main interior, to give a hint of three dimensions again. The whole idea is to give an impression of the interior, rather than anything highly detailed. I really don't think details will be visible through the fairly small windows once the roof is fitted.

Now I just need to buy some new cartridges for the colour laser printer. :eek::confused:
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Today, thoughts turned to bogies. I'm concentrating on the driving trailer of the pair, and while the underframe and body had been partially completed the bogie pivots hadn't been sorted out.

"Bogie pivots" sounds quite impressive. In fact, they're nothing more than an 8BA nut soldered onto the floor to take a bolt through the bogie centre.

First, let's review the bogies themselves.

IMG_6698.jpg

As with the bodywork, the bogies were designed to be bolted together. A brass central section, with a simple rocking pivot, has cast whitemetal sides and ends bolted and glue in place. You can make out the end stretchers aren't currently fixed to the sides. I'm not sure whether to glue them in place, or leave them to allow a kind of rudimentary springing action.

IMG_6699.jpg

IMG_6701.jpg

As befits the standard LNWR 9ft steel bogie, there are plates on the ends. I can't really work out what their purpose was, because they don't seem adequate as lifeguards, or splash guards. In any case, they're quite fragile, being whitemetal, so I planned to reinforce them.

IMG_6702.jpg

The loop is for the dynamo belt to pass through. I currently can't work out whether all the belt went through, or just the top part.

IMG_6704.jpg

Obviously, brake gear is missing. From the bits box, I retrieved these sprues of plastic moulded brake blocks. They'll need a bit of surgery, but I think they'll fit into the bogies and add an extra level of detail. Which reminds me, I also need to fabricate proper lifeguards for the leading bogie under the driving cab end.

IMG_6705.jpg

Here's a nut, soldered into place with the butane torch. I tinned one side of the nut, and the locating point on the floor. For the latter, I used the torch to melt a couple of strips of cored solder around the hole. Having chemically blackened the end of the bolt, to prevent it being soldered in place, I screwed the nut on the end, and held both bits in place while I let the flame play around the nut and floor area until the solder flowed nicely. A bit of scraping and cleaning with a fibreglass pen tidied things up afterwards.

IMG_6708.jpg

Finally for this report, here's how I reinforced the bogie end plates. I drilled a 0.7mm hole up into the end stretcher, and superglued a short length of brass wire in the hole and onto the back of the plate. You can see I have had to joggle the wire a little to ensure it sat neatly on the casting. It should provide a little extra strength to this area.
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Thanks for your diary on this project Heather - looks like a nice engineering job.

The plates on the bogie end stretchers are splash guards. Intention was to reduce splash onto the journals of adjacent wheelsets and spray generally around dynamos etc. All LNWR bogies had them and the LMS didn't remove them, so presumably they did some good.

Mike
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Cheers Mike. I had a feeling they may have been splash guards.

I'm currently fitting brake shoes - again only a representation to be lost in the murk. I should have a full report later.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Today I've been trying to get a representation of the brake gear on the bogie under the driving cab end. To complicate matters, there's a set of life-guards on the leading end, as well as a set of life-guards that appear to be fitted to rear of the buffer beam.

IMG_6710.jpg

First, the moulded brake blocks. I don't know the provenance of these items, but I think they're probably meant for 4mm scale models. While they're a little bit under scale for 7mm, I think they look good enough to give a representation of the brake blocks.

Trimming off the moulded pins, I drilled through the block hinge and the top hanger 0.7mm. Lengths of wire wire threaded through, which were soldered to the brass central chassis.

IMG_6714.jpg

The centre pairs of blocks could be fitted below the chassis. The blocks were adjusted to just clear the wheel tyres, and then a drop of superglue fixed them in position.

IMG_6717.jpg

Because of the way the end stretchers are fitted to the brass chassis, the outer brake pairs were fitted above the chassis (see the next picture). In this shot you can see the scrap etch life-guards, which are superglued and then clamped to the chassis by the end stretcher.

IMG_6718.jpg

Here's how I fixed the outer brake hanger wires. I've also elected to solder the corners of the whitemetal bogie sides and ends.

IMG_6719.jpg

The brake hanger wire at the inner end.

IMG_6720.jpg

I think the life-guards ought to be a tad longer. I'll consider creating new ones, although there is a lot going on under the buffer beam of the driving end.

Only another three bogies to go. :eek::thumbs:
 

jayell

New Member
Thanks Les. That's a sound idea. I'm letting resources build up a bit, and then I shall invest in some new tools - and drills will be high on the list. :thumbs:
Hi Heather, as a first posting to this forum can I suggest getting one of these setshttp://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-150-piece-micro-drill-bit-set-prod783229/. They aren't the best quality drills on the market but @ £11.50 for 150 drills are very reasonably priced.

The biggest problem I've had with mine is remembering whre the drill I have just been using came from in the box so I now put a marker in the slot it came from

jayell
 

Locomodels

Western Thunderer
Hi Heather, as a first posting to this forum can I suggest getting one of these setshttp://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-150-piece-micro-drill-bit-set-prod783229/. They aren't the best quality drills on the market but @ £11.50 for 150 drills are very reasonably priced.

The biggest problem I've had with mine is remembering whre the drill I have just been using came from in the box so I now put a marker in the slot it came from

jayell





I will go along with that, the only problem I had was that sone of the drills were badly sharpened and did not cut properly. However a couple of rubs with a diamond credit-card size hone ( available from ArcEuroTrade) did the trick. And yes I keep having to use the mic or vernier callipers to check the drill size to make sure that I have picked up the correct drill. So far, in well over a year, I have only broken one drill.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Cheers Paul and Jayell. Quality tools is high on my list of wants. Up till now, as most modellers, I've worked on a budget. If I'm serious about this pro modelling stuff, better tools is a must, I think.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Progress on these LNWR coaches is slow. I don't know why, but I just can't seem to get anywhere fast. Life seems to get in the way, like having to paint the front porch windows, or repair the back fence. :headbang:

Today, I did manage almost an entire day at the workbench, and made some sort of progress on the driving trailer. The pull and push control fittings included an extra vacuum control pipe, in addition to the standard brake pipe. As almost every driving trailer was a conversion from a passenger brake coach, the brake pipe stayed where it was fitted as built (generally under the frames), whereas the control pipe was run under the footboards on the left hand side of the coach. This meant a complicated series of bends to get a clear path, and I hope I've caught the complexity of the real thing in my efforts.

IMG_6731.jpg

I had some 1.3mm diameter copper wire, so I spent a while getting it more or less straight after it had been cut to length from the reel. I then spent a time fashioning it to match the visible pipe runs in various photos in my references. I used the RSU to fix the pipe at strategic points along the footboard supports - which you can just see in the above photo. I have also fettled and fitted the cab end control pipe, though it's not actually fixed to the body at this stage as I want to be able to demount the body for painting later. In this view, the standard vac brake pipe is fitted on the other side of the coupling to the control pipe. Note there is no steam heating pipe fitted at the driving cab end on LNWR conversions.

IMG_6732.jpg

Other odd details have been added to the underframe. I've fitted a representation of the dynamo belt, and pull-rod linkage for the brake gear. I've also blocked in the backs of the battery boxes. Once I've finished the pipework and fitted the buffers, this underframe will be about ready for a coat of paint. At last!

IMG_6733.jpg

I've not tried to be clever with the brake rodding. I can't find any good or clear references, so I've made a "best guess" which I hope will look okay once it's all dark and murky under there.

IMG_6734.jpg

The buffer springing is simply a short length of brass tube soldered centrally to the floor, with 0.9mm brass wire soldered into the ends of the turned brass buffer heads, which have a nice hole drilled into them by the manufacturer. One of our fellow WTers used this technique on a build, so I snaffled it as a Good Idea. Embarrassingly, I can't recall whose idea it was now. :oops: The compression is not soft, but enough to give a little under pressure.

Plans are now to complete the buffers and pipe run on the other end, arrange something resembling the second set of lifeguards that sit just behind the cab end buffer beam, and then perhaps get the whole underframe cleaned up and painted. The cab end bogie needs a set of steps added, and then both bogies can also get some paint applied.

I might start to think I'm getting somewhere with this build. I really need to get a shift on with it, because I've already got a queue of client work building up, not including a certain 9F or the Ivatt 2MT or the Fowler dock tank. :eek::thumbs:
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
No pictures, yet, but I have sorted out the brake, control and steam heat pipes on the driving trailer. It took a good hour or more, poring over photos, trying to work out where, how and why. I still haven't figured out just why the vacuum brake pipe runs outside the underframe and along the footboard on a lot of non-corridor stock. Motor-fitted corridor coaches had all the pipes hanging low, but try as I might I can't find a good clear photo showing whether non-corridor conversions had high or low vac and control pipes. I'm going with high, simply because the cab end, and most of the locos, were high. :thumbs:

Anyway, I just need to make up some running lights (which sat at the top of the sides of the coach brake end) and the footboards for the driver/guard on the leading bogie, and then I can think about getting paint on the damned thing.

Then to start the whole process again on the trailer... :confused:
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I managed to get some piccies this evening.

IMG_6735.jpg

Here's the cab end. The left hand pipe looks a bit wonky, but it's currently only held by the pipe that disappears to the right of the buffer beam. Once the body is painted, it'll all come good. That's the plan, anyway.

IMG_6737.jpg

T'other end. CPL brake telltale, which will be looped below the bufferbeam once the body is fixed in place. The vac, control and steam heat pipes are located as "best guess" from the available photos.

IMG_6744.jpg

A quick squint under the coach. I'm going to have to find a better way to fix dynamo belts in place, as I keep finding this one on the bench!

I'm feel in the mood for getting some paint on the underframe tomorrow. In other news, I have now got a full set of cartridges for the colour printer, so I'll begin to firm up the interior designs, too.

As our dearly beloved British Rail was fond of saying many years ago "We're getting there".
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
I'm going to have to find a better way to fix dynamo belts in place, as I keep finding this one on the bench!

Hi Heather

I turn the pulley end from brass, leaving a spigot I can glue/solder into a hole drilled in the dynamo body. The belt can then be soldered to the pulley before being plugged in.

Richard
 
Top